The taxpayers don't have a choice nor receive the kickbacks for the redistributing of their wealth.
Mach E high voltage battery contactor recall...
- Thread starter UncleDave
- Start date
No one knows if they will address the root cause - or simply hobble the car.
Seems to me the real fix is a battery redesign for better cooling - very likely they arent going to do that, at least for existing clients.
They did switch to a more robust contractor on (I think 5/22), bu this recall effects 50K cars built before that.
My guess is that the pioneers end up with an arrow in their backs.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Tesla is already using prismatic cells:
https://insideevs.com/news/542064/tesla-model3-lfp-battery-pack/
You didn't answer my question. Telling me Tesla's batteries, which are just cylindrical cells purchased from Panasonic, are the best, doesn't explain why other brands didn't also go with cylindrical cells, nor does it tell me why other brands, who have now invested in their own architecture using pouch or prismatic, would abandon that in favour of buying cylindrical cells from Telsa rather than just doing cylindrical themselves. As I noted, Tesla doesn't have a monopoly on this style, it is free to be used by anybody else, but none of them went that route except Lucid, which is of course a company comprised of ex-Tesla people.
My impression is that you are really alluding to Tesla's BMS and architecture rather than the batteries; referring to "batteries" as whole units.
This isn't rocket science (Space-X joke there...) and while Tesla indeed has a huge lead on BMS, if you've taken a look at the platforms BMW and VAG have developed (and perhaps GM, I've not given that much more than cursory glance) they are very well engineered and do the job intended. They will however need to improve their software, but there are lots of good programmers out there. Unless Tesla offers something that nobody else can do, this will also be refined in-house.
To use an ICE example, look how many individual diesel and gasoline engines have been developed. While yes, some marques have bought-into development with others, and some even outright bought engines from others, there is an incredible amount of individual engine design that took, and continues to take place. Toyota first licensed GM's old Stovebolt, how do they look relative to GM now? Honda was founded in the 1940's and built their own engines, decades after other manufacturers. Of course they've chosen to partner with GM on EV architecture, not Tesla.
We'll see. Supply chain issues have already driven-up the price of solar cells, even the ones imported from China that Tesla is now using since Panasonic's solar panel business folded. Solar subsidies are disappearing and problems with the logistics of integrating high levels of solar into grids are one of the driving factors. Tesla's main competitor in this space out-sells them by close to 10:1. The solar business has changed dramatically since 2016.
I'm hesitantly optimistic on this. I don't have the faith in the rapid development of FSD that others seem to share. Tesla has a huge lead in this space, but government regulation could still completely screw this up if liability concerns become a bigger issue.
I would hope not. However, I think VAG is probably Tesla's biggest competitor in this space (though GM is making some waves at the moment). BMW will probably be successful because they are BMW, same with Mercedes. It's the lower margin non-luxury marques that are more vulnerable and yes, Stellantis is late to the party in North America, however Peugeot has been successful with EV's in Europe:
https://www.peugeot.co.uk/models/categories/electric.html
Which I suspect is quite foundational for what we'll see here.
And I don't think the taxpayers are going to stomach any more bailouts should Ford/GM/Stellantis (are they even in the market ?) come crying that they are in dire straits again.
I don't think it matters what the taxpayers think. Politicians are gonna do what they do. They have shown that they no longer care what the voters say.
I don't think it matters what the taxpayers think. Politicians are gonna do what they do. They have shown that they no longer care what the voters say.
I can't comment upon why Tesla's competitors are using other than cylindrical cells. It must be from some perceived value due to cost or range. Tesla is making so much profit on their vehicles that my best guess is that they are seeing an advantage in range more than profit and winning the range war is more important at this point and they can afford to give up a few percentage points in profit. The others can't.
I still believe that at some point most EV makers are going to be paying some kind of cash tribute to Tesla for all of the R&D work that they have already accomplished and will be using Tesla technology or patents or the like and paying fees or buying batteries outright from a Tesla owned battery manufacturer that makes nothing other than batteries for vehicles.
It will be an interesting decade in the automotive world for sure.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Pouch cells are extremely compact and may be cheaper per Wh than other cell types. Prismatic are more complex, but can be setup to cool extremely well and aren't prone to the swell/rupture issue that pouch cells are. That's my understanding as to why BMW went prismatic, they can be configured in space efficient ways, are very easy to provide effective cooling to, and don't have the disadvantages of pouch. Cylindrical cells are also not prone to swell/rupture, and, per the Lucid video that was shared on here a while back, can be effectively cooled. They are also more energy dense than prismatic, IIRC. However, configuration of modules favours pouch and prismatic, which may be the primary reason we see conventional automakers going that route.
Seems Tesla has also segued into using prismatic, based on that article. Will be interesting to see if they'll continue with or expand that use going forward. BMW doesn't seem to be having the thermal issues that Ford is having, which does support their choice of prismatic at this juncture. As you know, I was VERY impressed with the i4 M50.
Yes, Tesla's margins are impressive. This is easy to do when you only make basically two interiors spread across four cars and they are pretty decontented. It also helps with the weight, which improves the range. That continues to be my biggest put-off with Tesla, the interior. I just struggle with BMW and MB price points with an interior that simply doesn't line up.
Depends on if they adopt any of it, or if they just end up doing it all in-house. We ARE talking software (BMS) for a lot of this, how many lines of code is that compared to say MacOS or Windows 10? The consumer interface is all very well sorted already (UConnect, MMI, iDrive, Synch...etc), it's battery management that still needs refinement and where Tesla has a tremendous lead.
Absolutely!
My gut feeling right now is that VAG and BMW will do very well in this space if their current models are any indication. Ford clearly has some significant growing pains still, and I expect we'll see the same with GM. Both Porsche and Audi have been pretty good so far, MB seems to be slower to market.
Also worth mentioning is that VAG and BMW have some fantastic entries in the PHEV space. This is another area that MB seems to be neglecting.
It appears the recall has been recalled?
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/no-hvbjb-software-recall-for-you-recall-of-the-recall.19486/
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/no-hvbjb-software-recall-for-you-recall-of-the-recall.19486/
As clear as mud, as they say... Is Ford now selling the Mustang Mach-E? I haven't kept up...
I think so - units built after June 22 (I think ) had a hardware fix.
Not sure about older inventory which may have been sitting with the most likely cause of that being ADM.
AND some of them need to be thumped aside as well....
