I don't get it.
M1 5-40 is thicker than 10-40 all across the board, at any temp.
???
M1 5-40 is thicker than 10-40 all across the board, at any temp.
???
M1 TSUV 5w-40 for winter New England?
- Thread starter Ed_T
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I don't get it, either. I just stocked up on 30 quarts of the M1 5w40 T&SUV for my turbo 4 cylinder. This information has me worried about cold start ups, and is really disappointing. I thought that it would flow easily (5) in the winter?
So, if this information is correct, should I switch to M1 0w40 earlier in the fall, rather than winter? If I use the 5w40 in the summer, and 0w40 in the winter, at what temperature would you switch back and forth?
So, if this information is correct, should I switch to M1 0w40 earlier in the fall, rather than winter? If I use the 5w40 in the summer, and 0w40 in the winter, at what temperature would you switch back and forth?
The 5wt rating is based on a test @ -13F, however you have to remember that Delvac 1 is thinning out to a 15 Cst oil, vs a 10 Cst oil for the Mobil 1, 5w-30 and 10w-30. So the viscosity/temp curves for a 5w-40 and a 10w-30 cross each other at some temp > -13F. The point at which they cross is a very low temp - in all likelyhood in the -5F to +5F range.
Think about it...you can't just go from a 5wt to a 40wt, you have to get there gradually as the oil warms up. A xw-40 oil simply does not thin out as fast as a xw-30 oil when you begin to heat both of them up....
The" take home" message is that an oil that's thinner at operating temp will in all likelyhood also be thinner as the ambients temps start to fall. If you want to ensure better cold weather performance than a 10w-30, you need to use 5w-30 or 0w-30 and not necessarily 0w-40 or 5w-40....This is why the wide range multigrades are a bit deceptive - they really don't give you the best of both worlds at temp extremes....
Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
Think about it...you can't just go from a 5wt to a 40wt, you have to get there gradually as the oil warms up. A xw-40 oil simply does not thin out as fast as a xw-30 oil when you begin to heat both of them up....
The" take home" message is that an oil that's thinner at operating temp will in all likelyhood also be thinner as the ambients temps start to fall. If you want to ensure better cold weather performance than a 10w-30, you need to use 5w-30 or 0w-30 and not necessarily 0w-40 or 5w-40....This is why the wide range multigrades are a bit deceptive - they really don't give you the best of both worlds at temp extremes....
Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
Well I guess there is a reason it is called Truck and SUV, it is engineered for those larger, slower rev'ing engines.
It should flow easier than a 15w40 at colder temps, which is the primary application , but maybe not more easily than a more lightly furmulated full synthetic PCMO. This shoudl not be a shock to anyone. I believe those numbers are from a calculator that is extrapolating a curve so a grain of salt may be in order here when looking at them. For instance the curve on the 10-40 may change more drastically under 40 deg C than the calculator would account for , or the 5w40 curve may not be quite as steep leading to greater relative errors at the extremes. They are probably in the ballpark though.
It should flow easier than a 15w40 at colder temps, which is the primary application , but maybe not more easily than a more lightly furmulated full synthetic PCMO. This shoudl not be a shock to anyone. I believe those numbers are from a calculator that is extrapolating a curve so a grain of salt may be in order here when looking at them. For instance the curve on the 10-40 may change more drastically under 40 deg C than the calculator would account for , or the 5w40 curve may not be quite as steep leading to greater relative errors at the extremes. They are probably in the ballpark though.
Hi,
engines vary in their cold start requirements of course along with the ambient variance and mostly the manufacturer knows best
Multigrades were designed accordingly to be "all year round" products, and appropriate viscosity synthetic multigrades handle this very well indeed
As an example this is how Porsche deal with viscosity and the expected ambient range;
"Above -25C all Approved oils (0w-40 and 5w-40) may be considered
Below -25C all Approved oils (0w-40) with a 0w viscosity may be considered
Cayenne and Cayenne "S" BiTurbo MUST only use an Approved 0w-40 oil all year round"
Note 1 - Or words to the above effect!
Note 2 - The Cayenne range have complex high performance V8 engines
Note 3 - Temperatures around -25C or below are quite common in Europe as we all know
Note 4 - Porsche engines have large coolant and oil capcities
JPowers - have no fear about using 5w-40 T&SUV all year round down to -25C. Charts don't always portray how the product performs in the real world - also, it has a pour point of -45C!
Doug
engines vary in their cold start requirements of course along with the ambient variance and mostly the manufacturer knows best
Multigrades were designed accordingly to be "all year round" products, and appropriate viscosity synthetic multigrades handle this very well indeed
As an example this is how Porsche deal with viscosity and the expected ambient range;
"Above -25C all Approved oils (0w-40 and 5w-40) may be considered
Below -25C all Approved oils (0w-40) with a 0w viscosity may be considered
Cayenne and Cayenne "S" BiTurbo MUST only use an Approved 0w-40 oil all year round"
Note 1 - Or words to the above effect!
Note 2 - The Cayenne range have complex high performance V8 engines
Note 3 - Temperatures around -25C or below are quite common in Europe as we all know
Note 4 - Porsche engines have large coolant and oil capcities
JPowers - have no fear about using 5w-40 T&SUV all year round down to -25C. Charts don't always portray how the product performs in the real world - also, it has a pour point of -45C!
Doug
Exactly, it pours at -49 F, that's good enough for me where it never gets below 0. According to UOA's, Saab 4 cylinder turbos like mine love this oil. Don't get too caught up in the numbers game, you don't need the absolute perfect oil for your application. Good enough will do just fine.
PS If suby really specs a 40 for their european cars I'd go with that. The EPA can take their fuel economy regs and shove em.
Well Heck if you really wanted to mix why not M1 0W40 and M1 TSUV 5W40 50/50? If that will not handle the cold temps and protect well I do not know what would!
I am going to be doing this very mix by accident but see no reason why it could not be done on purepose. On that same note 5W30 and 5W40 mixed 50/50 would also work well in my opion!
I am going to be doing this very mix by accident but see no reason why it could not be done on purepose. On that same note 5W30 and 5W40 mixed 50/50 would also work well in my opion!
Well, I guess when I have the time, I need to dig deeper into the specifications of oil. If the winter rating of these oils are based on a temperature of -13°F(-25°C), then I'm assuming the numbers would make more sense to me if that temperature was indicated on the chart. Is there a chart that shows what the "Kinematic Viscosity in cSt" range is supposed to be at -13°F(-25°F) for each winter viscosity number, ie. 0, 5, 10, 15, etc.?
Maybe, take a look through the first 15 or so pages of this 1.4MB PDF document:
http://www.sju.edu/~ahedin/Ethyl_Corp_Handbook/Ethyl_Corp_Handbook.pdf
You reproduce a chart and then say to ignore charts.
Hi,
427Z06 - really? Perhaps you should re-read all the posts so that you can see the relevance of my comments to the original poster's question
Selective chops and quotes do seem counterproductive to me
I wonder why I even bother to post on this Board
Keep smiling 427Z06!
Doug
427Z06 - really? Perhaps you should re-read all the posts so that you can see the relevance of my comments to the original poster's question
Selective chops and quotes do seem counterproductive to me
I wonder why I even bother to post on this Board
Keep smiling 427Z06!
Doug
Hi,
pscholte - yes you are correct! And I don't want to lose my Honorary Elfe status - ever!
Us Ozzies and Yanks must stick together!
Doug
pscholte - yes you are correct! And I don't want to lose my Honorary Elfe status - ever!
Us Ozzies and Yanks must stick together!
Doug
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