M1 EP vs. Amsoil EaO

[dailydriver]

Could not find anything about this exact comparo in the seach, so I don't know if it's been covered or not yet.
Anyway, what is everyone's thoughts on the filtering efficiency, longevity, ADB valving, start up pressures, etc. between these two??
My local Strauss has the M1 EPs on sale for $8.95, and I was just wondering if it was only 1/2 the filter of the EaOs, since the M1 is almost 1/2 the price (even with Amsoil PC pricing)???

 

[hi-miler]

I'm pretty interested in this also.
I've heard that the M1 has cellulose in it still, and the EaO is exclusively the nanofiber stuff. If the M1 is just as good, and filters down to the same micron level, then I'll just buy the M1.

 

[Tempest]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/846084/

 

[dailydriver]

Thank you , Tempest.
I believe I had seen that (and other) threads about the EaOs, after I had already installed one and was VERY encouraged by the results. I may still go with one for this change, or maybe I will start with the EP, and then switch to the EaO a third to mid OCI. I'm using Red Line so I leave it in there a LONG time.
But are there any threads like this for the M1 EP?? I don't even know how long it's been on the market since I was not paying attention to oil filters due to having the EaO protecting my engine.

 

[btanchors]

I'm in the midst of doing my own comparison. I ran the Mobil 1 M1-209 for two equal intervals using a new M1-209 and new oil for each 5,000 mile interval. I am using Mobil 1 EP 5w30 oil for each interval. At the end of each interval, I drain the oil, change the filter, and perform a UOA with TBN and particle count.

Now, I am in the midst of doing the same thing with the same vehicle, same type and brand of oil, same interval, etc., but using the Amsoil EaO34 filter. At the end of each 5K interval with the Amsoil filter, I'll have the same UOA with particle counts performed. Then, I will do the same thing again with the Mobil 1 filters all over again.

The more I think about this, the more I think my methodology is so flawed it may not be very useful. The particle count for the first M1-209 run was (@10K vehicle miles) 17/16/14, and the second run was (at 15,000 vehicle miles) 16/16/13. I'm new to interpreting particle counts - These sound pretty close - How do I interpret these two readings?

The readings may be going down simply because of engine break in. That's why, after running two intervals with the Amsoil filters, I will go back to the Mobil 1 filters. That way, if the readings go down with the Amsoil filters, but goes back up when returning to the Mobil 1 filter, I will know it's probably due to the filter and not a normal trend for the engine.

I suspect GeorgeCLS's method is more accurate. I will continue to post my results as things go along....

 

[Gary Allan]

Can you post the actual numbers (ie, >5um 1492, >10um 395, >15um 152, >25um 39, >50um 5, >100um 0)?

 

[BarkerMan]

Can I suggest a test that you can do at home. It does require a microscope, though. You put a couple of drops of oil on a slide. Rub two slides together with a good healthy squeeze. Then clean one slide with acetone and dry it very carefully. Then view the slide under the microscope. You are looking for scratches. You than label the slides and start a collection. There should be few if any scratches but it's the particles that will make scratches that you can see under the scope that might be of interest. I use this test to tell me when to change the oil on my diesel generator at home. I have calibrated my eye with lab tests to get a starting reference. When I go back to the lab to see if my mental calibration has slipped I find that it's an accurate method that will help you determine when particles are beginning to show up in the oil. You might want to try this to go along with all the lab work you are doing.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver

My local Strauss has the M1 EPs on sale for $8.95, and I was just wondering if it was only 1/2 the filter of the EaOs, since the M1 is almost 1/2 the price (even with Amsoil PC pricing)???


EAO32-EA
Absolute Efficiency Oil Filter
1 FILTER $11.65

I'm not following you?

 

[btanchors]

Gary Allen -

Here are the actual numbers from my two UOAs, both with the M1-209 filter:

At 10,000 Vehicle miles (first), and after 15,000 miles (right)
>= 2 Microns: 1868 1186
>= 5 Microns: 692 439
>=10 Microns: 191 121
>=15 Microns: 74 47
>=25 Microns: 17 11
>=50 Microns: 1 1
>=100Microns: 0 0

Although the ISO code isn't that much different, the actual numbers seem quite a bit better at 15K miles than at 10K. Note that my sampling method both times was identical- I used a pump to extract via the dipstick tube, and was very careful to insert the plastic tube to a length a bit less than the length of the dipstick, right after engine shut down. Comments?

 

[Steve S]

+ tax and shipping.???

 

[Pablo]

Stores charge tax as well and gas is $3.25/gallon.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
the actual numbers seem quite a bit better at 15K miles than at 10K.


The cutoff level is identical for both samplings. You have virtually nothing somewhere between >25 and >50. I will, for the time being, attribute the decrement in PC over the longer span to the larger pores getting saturated in the filter and having more of the fluid flow being carried by finer/smaller pores.

I can't absolutely eliminate the potential for the reduction due to continued engine break in ...but it would be a challenge for me to see a reduction in already produced and suspended particles. If I was of the notion (wanted to argue the point in debate - as in "how do you know it's not xxxxx"?), I'd rather attribute it to having them sink out in some form of deposit/film formations.

But I'm not of that persuasion

On the next run, we will hopefully see a zero at the >50um and a reduction at >25. If the pores are that much more uniform ..as we're led to believe, then the reduction over time/mileage should not be as substantial; then the overall numbers should be lower in either case.

The lower particle numbers (>2um through >5um) will most likely be insolubles (the >2um especially). This can go way high with any filter and not really be a reflection on the filter itself. That is, you can have a fuel issue that will send these numbers higher even with a filter snagging more of the >15um particles.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
+ tax and shipping.???


Sure, Steve, on an individual filter purchase, even as a PC, the EaO is a costly filter. If, however, you purchase sensibly with other Amsoil products, you can offset/dilute those minimum shipping and handling charges. There's something like a $6.xx minimum for anything, but it only goes up to about $8.xx for a case of oil (with the energy costs, it can change a bit) @ 24+ lbs.

Now as far as value, at any cost, that's for you to decide. It's like extended drains. For someone who hasn't broken the 3k/3m prison, 5k/6m is an extended drain. They're just not going to do it otherwise. Just like some feel they need a synthetic to even consider 5k/6m, others may need something like an EaO to leave a filter on for two OCI or one year.

Essentially, there's no way any Amsoil dealer can compete with M1 on a cost basis. I DO feel that it's enough of a cut above it in performance and longevity that it totally trumps it in value if the customer can sensibly take advantage of it.

There are just those who insist on the best, no matter what. No problem, it's your car and you're doing what you feel is best for it. I don't, however; as it tells us in our business ethics section of our manual, actively try and sell any customer a product that can do him no good in terms of value.

Essentially, whether it's oil or filters, if you can't get your money's worth out of it, don't buy it. I'm here to show you how to get your money's worth out of it in terms of overall benefit and/or avoided costs.

 

[Steve S]

Gary I agree.

 

[dailydriver]

Gary & Pablo; I am NOT arguing, nor disputing that the EaOs are hands down the 'best' filters out there (even though some on here will, of course, dispute that).
I was merely asking what sort of performance/longevity 'hit' am I taking by going with a single M1 EP for now, until I can renew my PC membership (you also must factor this cost into the equation, even though, yes Gary, it works out in one's favor when making a BULK order, or buying MUCH product over a year's time).
When I get around to doing this, I will order multiple EaOs, and install one to replace the M1 EP at maybe the 1/3 point of the OCI.
Understood?
BTW; Your EaA is the ONLY air filter my car will ever see, with the possible exception of a Wix temporarily while I am cleaning the Amsoil!!

 

[Gary Allan]

Oh not much of a hit at all. The M1 is a fine filter.

 

[STG]

Originally Posted By: btanchors
Gary Allen -

Here are the actual numbers from my two UOAs, both with the M1-209 filter:

At 10,000 Vehicle miles (first), and after 15,000 miles (right)
>= 2 Microns: 1868 1186
>= 5 Microns: 692 439
>=10 Microns: 191 121
>=15 Microns: 74 47
>=25 Microns: 17 11
>=50 Microns: 1 1
>=100Microns: 0 0

Although the ISO code isn't that much different, the actual numbers seem quite a bit better at 15K miles than at 10K. Note that my sampling method both times was identical- I used a pump to extract via the dipstick tube, and was very careful to insert the plastic tube to a length a bit less than the length of the dipstick, right after engine shut down. Comments?


This is why I have always questioned the real value of UOAs.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: STG
Originally Posted By: btanchors
Gary Allen -

Here are the actual numbers from my two UOAs, both with the M1-209 filter:

At 10,000 Vehicle miles (first), and after 15,000 miles (right)
>= 2 Microns: 1868 1186
>= 5 Microns: 692 439
>=10 Microns: 191 121
>=15 Microns: 74 47
>=25 Microns: 17 11
>=50 Microns: 1 1
>=100Microns: 0 0

Although the ISO code isn't that much different, the actual numbers seem quite a bit better at 15K miles than at 10K. Note that my sampling method both times was identical- I used a pump to extract via the dipstick tube, and was very careful to insert the plastic tube to a length a bit less than the length of the dipstick, right after engine shut down. Comments?


This is why I have always questioned the real value of UOAs.
What a uoa does best is a look at how the oil is holding up.

 

[harry j]

Just got my UOA from Blackstone. Using the SSO and the Eao20 filter the ISO code was 16/15/12. "Clean for a used oil"