M1-ATF/MerconV

Ron · Apr 2, 2003

Hi,
There is some debate about M1-ATF being compatible with Mercon-V? Is M-1 a good choice otc syn.atf for my '99 E-150(4R70W) Van requiring

Mercon-V?
FlatRateTech Forum:
" There is a good reason NOT to use Mercon V in older ATs. The clutch material prior to '98 in FEW vehicles, and many RWD vehicles prior to '96 are not designed for this type of fluid and it's addatives. How, I'm not exactly sure. I do KNOW that ALL AODE/4R70W RWD transmissions CAN and SHOULD use Mercon V.

Another interesting tidbit. Two different engineer types have told me that Mobil synthetic ATF is ok for use where Mercon V is required."

Larry B. · Apr 2, 2003

I too have a Ford van , Mines a 2000 with the 4R70W transmission .. At times I do some heavier towing and am concerned about heat on this transmission .. I just bought a larger cast Aluminum transmission pan ( larger by 3 Qts. ) and bought some Pennzoil synthetic blend transmission fluid , hopefully it might run a bit cooler , it came with a factory transmission cooler ,, I too was not sure if a synthetic oil could be used , as my vehicle is still under warranty ... I find it hard to believe that a synthetic transmission oil can bring the teperature down by 20 degrees as advertised .. I hooked up a transmission temperature gauge and without changing anything yet was runnning about 180 to 190 degrees ... can anybody add to this thread ?

Larry

Bio-T · Apr 2, 2003

Larry,

180-190 degrees is not an ideal temp for an unladen vehicle. 165 degrees would be ideal under most conditions and 185-195 degrees towing. If you are not seeing these temps, I would add another cooler in series with the factory one. Install one on the return side prior to the bypass valve.

I never reach 140 degrees with this set-up on my 95 F250 Ext Cab, LB with Shell and full drawer inserts. Towing TT level I may reach 145 in the summer. Never have seen over 195 degrees towing up a 3 mile posted 7% grade, 2'nd gear, 35MPH the whole way.

Will the synthetic oil lower the temp 20 degrees? Whether you are running Syn or conventional or synthetic blend, to meet mercon/dexron they can only have a certain coefficient of friction and it is a small window. A trans at 380 degrees is melted anyway. I like Schaeffer's, Amsoil, Mobil I, Pennzoil and Royal Purple. JMO

MNgopher · Apr 2, 2003

Mobil ATF is NOT Mercon V rated.

Mercon V was released to try and deal with some of the shudder issues that have plauged the 4R70W transmissions and their earlier variants. It contains a different additive package that may damage some other transmissions (like the 4R100).

That being said, it should be OK to use a Mercon rated fluid, like Mobil 1 ATF, since that is what was used before in these transmissions.

Ford will tell you not to use a fluid that is dual rated Mercon and Mercon V. This is because their Mercon and Mercon V products (branded motorcraft, made by Conoco) are not dual rated. Other brands are dual rated and work fine. My trucks are running Valvoline Durablend ATF, which is dual rated, and I have had no issues.

novadude · Apr 2, 2003

While we are on the topic, can anyone tell me if Havoline (Equilon) Mercon V is any good?

Thanks.

metroplex · Apr 2, 2003

My 1981 Ford AOD is running pennzoil Mercon-V w/o any problems.

The shifts are smoother but also firm.

On the 2003 E-250, there's a transmission oil cooler - looks to be about 28,000 to 32,000 GVW rated, stacked plate cooler. This is STOCK BTW and you'll find it on the front of the van behind the grille.

Make sure you change the ATF in your 4R70W every 15k to 20k if you do a lot of towing!!!

Mercon-V was Ford's band-aid fix for transmission shudder found on the 4R70W. Said problem can now be fixed by getting your PCM flashed at a Ford dealership - there's a TSB for this somewhere.

Whimsey · Apr 3, 2003

In the newer ford trucks you can use a dual Mercon/MerconV fluid in a transmission that specs MerconV. But for a transmission that specs plain Mercon Ford says use of the dual usage fluid can cause damage. I got this right out of the owner's manual.

Whimsey

Not the Autorx Frank · Apr 3, 2003

I believe the original question from Ron was regarding Mobil 1 ATF in a transmission that requires Mercon V. I knoe not to use mercon V or dual rated atf in a transmission that takes mercon but what about Mobil 1 in a transmission that takes Mercon V?

Alex D · Apr 3, 2003

I just rebuilt the 4R70W in my 94 T-Bird 4.6 SOHC beater.

All Ford 4R70W can take Mercon V, in fact it is better for them and recommended to eliminate the TC shudder issue so common with these transmissions. Look for expertise on this transmission here: www.tccoa.com in the tech articles.

Mercon III and Dexron III are identical and can be replaced with M1 Synthetic ATF. i would not put Mobil 1 ATF with Mercon V. Mercon V by itself is at least semi-synthetic and great for Ford transmissions that can take it. No need for M1.

Really in the end the only thing that sets ATF apart is the friction coefficient. Ford Type F is the grippiest fluid. You would not believe the people i know that run Ford F fluid in GM 4L60 and 4L60E transmissions for more positive shifts and it works. Dexron is in the middle and Chrysler ATF 3+ and Honda fluids are more slippery then Type F and Dexron. that is why you can bring Dexron to ATF 3+ specs with the Lubeguard additive reducing the friction coefficient. Mercon V has the same friction coefficient than Dexron, but is more heat stable. break down of Dexron/Mercon is what causes 4R70W converter clutches to begin to shudder.

[ April 03, 2003, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Alex D ]

Not the Autorx Frank · Apr 3, 2003

Another question then... I have two trucks with identicle transmissions. the older of the 2 takes mercon and the newer takes mercon V. I have never had to use mercon V in the older to keep it from shuttering. wouldn't it be ok to use mobil 1 as long as it didn't shutter?

boxcartommie22 · Apr 3, 2003

i have a 98 expy e4od and 98 vic 4r70w vic requires merc 5 i use redlines d4 in both of these transmissions

MNgopher · Apr 3, 2003

In the older one, sure, Mobil 1 ATF is fine. Mobil 1 is Mercon rated.

In the newer one, maybe, maybe. I figure Mobil 1 would advertise it if Mobil 1 ATF was a good fit there. They don't, so I look elsewhere... Reality is it should work fine, but I don't feel like being the guinea pig...

As I said before, Ford will tell you not to use a dual rated fluid because their Mercon V fluid is NOT backward compatible. What this means is Motorcraft ATF (made by Conoco) will be labeled Mercon or Mercon V. The Mercon V does not mean it its compatible for Mercon uses when dealing with the Motorcraft (or Conoco for that matter) brand.

My '97 F150 used Mercon from the factory in its 4R70W. My '99 F150 used Mercon V from the factory in its 4R70W. Both have Valvoline Durblend ATF in them, which is dual rated. There have been no issues. If a dual rated fluid was going to kill the '97's transmission, I'd imagine it should have happened by now. It was filled with the dual rated fluid about three fills ago and has run it ever sense, from 60,000 miles to its current 158,000 miles. This includes trailer towing with 3:08 gears over mountain passes. Think overdrive was locked out

Ford makes their owners manual almost pointless these days...

[ April 03, 2003, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]

Alex D · Apr 3, 2003

Yes, all transmissions requiring Mercon can use Mobil 1 ATF. Mercon and Dexron III are absolutely, positively identical fluids and Mobil 1 ATF is for these applications. I would stay with Mercon V fo newer Ford Transmissions requiring Mercon V since it is synthetic and also cheaper than Mobil 1 ATF ($3.30 vs. $4.99)

quote:

Originally posted by Not the Autorx Frank:
Another question then... I have two trucks with identicle transmissions. the older of the 2 takes mercon and the newer takes mercon V. I have never had to use mercon V in the older to keep it from shuttering. wouldn't it be ok to use mobil 1 as long as it didn't shutter?

Alex D · Apr 3, 2003

maybe I misunderstand you, but this is not entierly true. Mercon V is backward compatible on SOME Ford transmissions such as the 4R70W or AODE even though M V was not even on the market when the AODE was phased out. ALL 4R70W and AODEs can take Mercon V no matter when tehy were produced. M V is not compatible with some of the FWD Ford transmissions such as the ones in the Taurus, the seals in these transmissions do not take well to M V, so Mercon/Dexron III must be installed here. The Ford 4R100 CANNOT take M V and needs to get Mercon/Dexron III no mater when it was built.

quote:

Originally posted by MNgopher:
In the older one, sure, Mobil 1 ATF is fine. Mobil 1 is Mercon rated.

In the newer one, maybe, maybe. I figure Mobil 1 would advertise it if Mobil 1 ATF was a good fit there. They don't, so I look elsewhere... Reality is it should work fine, but I don't feel like being the guinea pig...

As I said before, Ford will tell you not to use a dual rated fluid because their Mercon V fluid is NOT backward compatible. What this means is Motorcraft ATF (made by Conoco) will be labeled Mercon or Mercon V. The Mercon V does not mean it its compatible for Mercon uses when dealing with the Motorcraft (or Conoco for that matter) brand.

My '97 F150 used Mercon from the factory in its 4R70W. My '99 F150 used Mercon V from the factory in its 4R70W. Both have Valvoline Durblend ATF in them, which is dual rated. There have been no issues. If a dual rated fluid was going to kill the '97's transmission, I'd imagine it should have happened by now. It was filled with the dual rated fluid about three fills ago and has run it ever sense, from 60,000 miles to its current 158,000 miles. This includes trailer towing with 3:08 gears over mountain passes. Think overdrive was locked out

Ford makes their owners manual almost pointless these days...

novadude · Apr 4, 2003

I've been using various Merc V fluids in a 1995 AODE for 2 years / 30k miles. I've had no issues whatsoever.

ALL 4R70W / AODE transmissions should be using MErc V, IMO.

MNgopher · Apr 4, 2003

No, that was my point. Because of the backward compatibility issues with certain transmissions (such as the 4R100), ford tries to eliminate the confusion by selling two completely different fluids - one labeled Mercon V, one labeled Mercon. Their fluids are NOT dual rated. That is why the owners manual in vehicles with Mercon V say not to run a dual rated fluid - only one labeled Mercon V.

Other ATF manufacturers do make dual rated ATF that will work fine in either application. Both Valvoline and Pennzoil come to mind.

Think we're confused here? Good luck taking it to the dealer - they are of the mind that it doesn't matter, so they throw all Mercon V at everything. Glad I don't own a Superduty...

M1-ATF/MerconV

Similar threads