M1 5w30 Cadillac cts 3.6l 11,721 miles

[Spykem4e]

Here's the result from this week oil change.

Cadillac CTS 2005
3,6l v6 vvt NON_DI
engine mileage: 198,239 km
oil mileage: 18,863 km
Oil filter: PF2149 OEM cartridge
OLM: 0%
Type of driving: 60% highway, 30% city, 10% idling.
Oil consumption: 1 qt per 6500km
Oil added: 2.5 liters

I'll post the 2 previous results:

The first number are the actual analysis

.......... M1 5w30 . . PP 5w30 . . M1 5w30
miles: 198239 . . 179376 . . 164415
oil: 18863 . . 12468 . . 16325

Fe: 30 - 16 - 29
Cu: 2 - 1 - 2
Pb: 7 - 3 - 6
Sn: 1 - 1 - 0
Al: 3 - 2 - 4
Cr: 1 - 0 - 1
Mo: 94 - 60 - 84
Si: 8 - 5 - 6
Mg: 14 - 12 - 13
B: 47 - 37 - 70
Na: 2 - 0 - 5
Ca: 2598 - 3094 - 2411
P: 743 - 757 - 683
Mn: 2 - 1 - 2
Zn: 873 - 868 - 805
K: 5 - 0 - 5


Soot: 0 - 0 - 0
AW/EP 19 - 19 - 20
Water-EP 7 - 10 - 7
Degradation(1) 0 - 0 - 0
Degradation(2) 22 - 22 - 23

cSt 40: 59.39 - 57.70 - 56.53
cSt 100: 10.26 - 10.10 - 9.73

TBN: 5.41 - 6.31 - 4.84

Glycol(%): 0.01 - 0.00 - 0.00

Water:
Viscosity Index: 162.00 - 164.00 - 158.00

Dilution: 0 - 0.50 - 0



So what do you guys think?

I change the plenum gasket and one bad spark plug+bad coil during the oil change interval.

For the glycol, I'm a little concerned. Could it be from the MAF sensor cleaner or the Throttle Body cleaner I used? The car doesn't seems to use coolant either (still in the full mark in the reservoir).

By the way, I switched back to M1 after trying PP because my car didn't like PP. It drank it 1 qt per 3000 kms.

 

[buster]

Looks good to me. How much total makeup oil?

 

[Spykem4e]

Originally Posted By: buster
Looks good to me. How much total makeup oil?


2.5 qt of makeup oil for those 12k miles.

That is way better than PP with 3 qts for 7500 miles.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I would try M1 high mileage 10w-30 for the summer if this engine will run OK on A3 oil. (just bC I an curious to see the affect (if any) of a GF3 mid saps V. GF4 low saps. Unfortunately it will throw the MID HTHS into the mix too. I should curtail most of your oil consumption also.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

How do you like the CTS?

 

[d00df00d]

Nice report! Keep doing what you're doing and see what happens on the next UOA. I wouldn't worry about anything just yet.

 

[Spykem4e]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I would try M1 high mileage 10w-30 for the summer if this engine will run OK on A3 oil. (just bC I an curious to see the affect (if any) of a GF3 mid saps V. GF4 low saps. Unfortunately it will throw the MID HTHS into the mix too. I should curtail most of your oil consumption also.


I tried the M1 10w30 once. The silver bottle with the green letters saying 10w30 for high mileage vehicle (if thats the right one) because it was the only one I could find in my area. I think its just the same thing as regular 5w30 but in a 10w30. With that oil, the car drank 1 qt per 800 miles. I don't know why. It has to meet the gm 4718m spec.

As for your question about if I like the CTS:

Its one of the best car I've owned. I'm a sales manager and my car is my office. I drive minimum 50,000 kms per year and up to 90,000 kms. Its the only first car that, except for maintenance, I didn't put more than $1500 of repairs in those 200,000 kms.

Its a very comfortable car for long rides, the mpg is about 27 mpg on highway and mix city/highway about 22-23 mpg. The 3,6l is plenty enough to have fun and have great pickups and great acceleration and very low maintenance cost. The transmission looks bulletproof but can be hunting between gears on light to medium hills with the a/c on. I guess its the drive-by-wire system.

The only thing negative I can say for the car is its a rear wheel drive. Well, for my part, in montreal, we get a lot of snow and I have to put 2 bags of 35 kg each in the trunk when its very slippery outside otherwise I can't get out of the garage. But its not enough negative for my part since my next car would be a Cadillac again. A CTS wagon or normal sedan with the AWD system with the same engine or the new SRX, I don't know yet and I'm not ready yet to get rid of my CTS. I hope my car would last until 400,000 kms (just by curiosity)

For a resume, I do love the CTS

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Spykem4e
Originally Posted By: buster
Looks good to me. How much total makeup oil?


2.5 qt of makeup oil for those 12k miles.

That is way better than PP with 3 qts for 7500 miles.


Though I've never heard it occurring with PP, transitional consumption can't be ruled out here. You may have not experienced the same level of consumption the next round with the oil. It's a seating process when going from one oil to another. I've had it occur twice. It would have been more easy to see if you had no consumption at all to distinct consumption. With just an increase it's easier to conclude that it's an inferior oil that's not up to the task.


Great report, imo. Good job on following the OLM.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Spykem4e


I tried the M1 10w30 once. The silver bottle with the green letters saying 10w30 for high mileage vehicle (if thats the right one) because it was the only one I could find in my area. I think its just the same thing as regular 5w30 but in a 10w30. With that oil, the car drank 1 qt per 800 miles. I don't know why. It has to meet the gm 4718m spec.

Glad you enjoy it! The latest 10w-30 high mileage oil is a whole nouther animal than most M1 products. Its GF3 long life A3 euro spec oil with higher antiwear agents, higher HTHS and the suspected classic full synthetic basestocks since it demonstrates the 'Vandelay -54C pour'. It Should be EoM best High performance oil in a 30wt other than their specialty racing products, if the datasheet means anything.

 

[Spykem4e]

Arco, thanks a lot. Next summer, I will try the new high mileage oil as long as it meets 4718m spec. I don't know what would happen if I don't use an oil that doens't meet this spec...


Bitogers, the results I posted here, it says 0.01% Glycol found in my sample. Is Glycol used as an antirust product? Since I've just treated my car with an antirust product, maybe thats why? I could have touched the body a little bit and then the sample bottle... Or could it be because 3 weeks ago, I had my car in the paint shop for a half body paint job?

I'm asking because the tribologik company said:

engine condition: Critical
oil condition: marginal

we found trace (less than 300 ppm) of glycol in the sample (0.01%). This could be due to coolant contamination in the oil.

The coolant in the reservoir is still at the full mark when cold.

The coolant is Dexcool from GM and if there was a coolant contamination, would the Sodium and Potassium would be elevated?

 

[buster]

What Gary said is true, transitional consumption can occur for several thousand miles.

 

[Nyquist]

I'd be tempted to have the gaskets checked to be sure. I'd also run a shorter OCI next time just in case there is a leak.

 

[Minou]

Did anybody notice that the engine spit out half the Fe with PP than it did with the 2 M1 samples?

Spyke,

Aren't you concerned that your engine is burning so much oil?

My GF's 165000 Km 2002 Accent consumes about that much but she paid $2800. for it while you splurged upwards of 40K for your CTS.

 

[buster]

Some engines, for a number of reasons, are more likely to use some amount of oil. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong with the engine either. In some cases, I've read it can be beneficial.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Bitogers, the results I posted here, it says 0.01% Glycol found in my sample. Is Glycol used as an antirust product? Since I've just treated my car with an antirust product, maybe thats why? I could have touched the body a little bit and then the sample bottle... Or could it be because 3 weeks ago, I had my car in the paint shop for a half body paint job?

I'm asking because the tribologik company said:

engine condition: Critical
oil condition: marginal

we found trace (less than 300 ppm) of glycol in the sample (0.01%). This could be due to coolant contamination in the oil.


One swallow does not a summer make - Aristotle

There's no accompanying aggravated wear markers.

and, yes, typically coolant ingress is accompanied with potassium and sodium. In fact, in a Blackstone UOA ..they're standing WAY out before their testing can even see glycol.

..but I understand your concern. You're a long(er) way from retesting again if it were some progressive condition.

Here's what a coolant problem looks like and you would find no reason to think anything was wrong (at this level):

A customer's car

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Minou
Did anybody notice that the engine spit out half the Fe with PP than it did with the 2 M1 samples?

The M1 was run significantly longer.

 

[Gary Allan]

Probably a wash between the added make up and the mileage difference.

 

[Spykem4e]

Originally Posted By: Minou
Did anybody notice that the engine spit out half the Fe with PP than it did with the 2 M1 samples?

Spyke,

Aren't you concerned that your engine is burning so much oil?

My GF's 165000 Km 2002 Accent consumes about that much but she paid $2800. for it while you splurged upwards of 40K for your CTS.


Nope, not at all! I'm sure my engine is running way hotter than any ordinary engine since mine doesn't have an oil cooler and maybe that's why for this type of engine, cadillac requires 4718m spec only.

Some Cadillac engines are know to be oil users and my car consume or use 1 qt per 4k miles at 200,000kms, I'm saying its not a big deal. Cadillac has a tsb concerning bad piston rings and bad valve seals with the 3,6l v6 vvt engine , same engine as mine, and it can cause to consume up to 1 qt per 500 miles. They released the tsb not long ago and my car was out of warranty so its a 4000$ jobs. Should I pay $4000 for the job or just add a qt of oil every 4k miles? (6500 kms)

As long as the consumption is not getting worse.

Also, for the PP results, I had 12000 kms on the sample with 3 qt of added oil. M1 was for 16000 kms for the first sample and almost 19000kms for the second one with 2.5 qt of makeup oil.

Nyquist, which gasket I should check? I can try to check it myself just after christmas and I'll keep an eye on the coolant level.

Gary, thanks a lot. What I'll do is follow the OLM but this time, at 50%, i'll send a sample to the lab and wait for the results. we'll see if anything shows up. If not, I'll will run a full OLM. Also, do you have any idea what would happen if I don't use an oil that meets the 4718m oil spec specified for my engine?

 

[Tucson Five-O]

Spykem4e,

GM 4718M is a high temperature deposit resistant spec. Using a Dino or even a synthetic oil that does not meet this spec will increase the likelihood of your engine developing high temperature related deposits, particularly in the ring-pack/cylinder head area (could really increase your oil consumption) and a tendency for the oil to oxidize and age prematurely. Stay with a 4718M oil like PP 5W-30, Mobil1 5W-30, or better still Mobil1 5W-30EP which had the lowest TEOST numbers of any API oil out there.

Take care,
Gary

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Gary, thanks a lot. What I'll do is follow the OLM but this time, at 50%, i'll send a sample to the lab and wait for the results. we'll see if anything shows up. If not, I'll will run a full OLM.


You're certainly welcome. That would be a good plan to see if this was some fluke in the testing or if you've got some advancing condition.

Quote:
Also, do you have any idea what would happen if I don't use an oil that meets the 4718m oil spec specified for my engine?



It's a high-temperature requirement deals with oxidation and volatility under the Sequence IIIE test ..which I believe measures piston ring land deposits. You have to keep in mind that these tests are taken to incredible severity to shorten the time frame to projected outcomes.

I have kinda put this up there with the highly coveted HTHS requirements for Euro-Alloy that are built to travel @ 140mph for hours on end ..vs. the likelihood of a daily driver experiencing that at all in a lifetime for more than 30 seconds at a clip. Naturally if one were fully determined to do sustained ultra high speed (120+) driving, then one would use the specified oil with all the bells and whistles out of sensibility.

In my observations (and with very few exceptions), just about everything comes down to a time weighted average of severity. A non-4718 oil endures 4718 conditions for less time. That is, if subjected to 3/4 of the duration of the Sequence IIIE test, it would (probably) PASS.

With that reasoned opinion in mind, you are planning on a 50% UOA. You should be able to see if any thickening is occurring. By your described service profile, I don't see it being a problem.