M1 15W-50/Saab 9000, '98 B234R

[zeke]

Here's the UOA from Blackstone. The oil did an 8 month and 7700 mile interval. Still seems to be plenty of additives left - I'll probably extend the interval to 10k miles.

Engine: 2.3l B234R 64,700 miles
Oil Capacity - 4.5l
Filtration - PureOne
Mobil One 15W-50 w/no make-up

4/'04 8//03 (6300 miles)

Aluminum - 5 4
Chromium - 2 1
Iron - 18 15
Copper - 4 4
Lead - 9 16
Tin - 3 2
Molybdenum - 68 68
Nickel - 1 1
Manganese - 0 0
Silver - 0 0
Titanium - 0 0
Potassium - 3 3
Boron - 97 87
Silicon - 15 11
Sodium - 22 69
Calcium - 2640 3273
Magnesium - 44 143
Phosphorus - 896 1068
Zinc - 1082 1284
Barium - 0
SUS Viscosity @ 210 ºF - 85.8

This engine gets 'higher than average' boost pressures - 24.5 psi. Although it hasn't been dynoed for about 2 years, I conservatively estimate the horsepower at over 300. The 15W-50 is used year round. Because I live in new england, the temperature will occasionally fall below 0 ºF in January. However, because my second vehicle is a chevy p-up, the saab never gets started if the temperature falls below 20 ºF - I also hesitate in using the saab if there's any salt/brine on the roads.

???

 

[Al]

Well its a good report, but I can't help wondering if the 5W-40 Delvac wouldn't do better or if mixture of the 10W-30 and 15W-50 wouldn't do just as good. Also why the high Sodium??

 

[zeke]

I've considered the Delvac1 or the 5W-40. Unfortunately, the Delvac seems very hard to come by, here in the northeast. I don't think I've ever seen it on the shelves of my local Wal-Mart, which is where I get my 15W-50 ($4.27/qt).
The sodium content did decrease, from 69 to 22 parts. I did have slight weepage of coolant from the cylinder head and the water pump gasket, but Bars Leak seems to have provided a temporary fix. Anyway, the 15W-50 seemed like a good fit for my particular engine: it develops massive amounts of torque at low rpms and it's critical to have the underside piston sprayers spraying at this critical regime!

 

[TR3-2001SE]

I would say this is an excellent report for the milage and the way the car is used. I would not do a thing. It shows we can go 7500 miles between changes with a good synthetic. It also shows the higher viscosity oils can do a great job when the weather is warm-hot.

 

[Schmoe]

This also kind of dispells the myth that the PureOne filters have a restricted flow. If it was that restrictive, we'd see problems with this report and I'm seeing none. Plus, a turbo none the less. If the PureOnes can handle good flows with a 15W-50, it sure as fire can handle the 5/10W-30's and 40's.

 

[sprintman]

Good info for me as I'm using Performax 100 5W50 with a PureONE filter and I had concerns over restricted flow. Much happier now...s

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schmoe:
This also kind of dispells the myth that the PureOne filters have a restricted flow. If it was that restrictive, we'd see problems with this report and I'm seeing none. Plus, a turbo none the less. If the PureOnes can handle good flows with a 15W-50, it sure as fire can handle the 5/10W-30's and 40's.

---

While his numbers are good, we don't know for sure that they are the best they could be. It would not surprise me one bit if his lead numbers came down a lot more with the switch to a higher flow oil filter.

I know we can't directly compare my LT1 V8 engine to this one, but I saw only 2.5ppm of lead in a 6200 mile interval using GC along with a high flow K&N oil filter. And I drive my car very hard and it has twice the number of cylinders as this engine.

So I would definitely recommend he switch to a higher flow oil filter and see how the next report turns out.

 

[Schmoe]

This is about 0.86 ppm of lead per 1K miles. That's pretty dang good. I don't know if you could improve on that or not. For me, I would be tickled pink and be very happy with these results. Also, some of us are missing that this is a turbo. We all know what turbos do to an engine oil. I surely, for this particular set up, would not be wanting to take a chance with a higher flow filter. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Excellent results. I'm going to 1/2 15W-50 and 5W-30 on my 5.4l F150 here pretty soon. I mean, these numbers are beyond great. Look at the iron, either M1 did some formula tweaking or this engine just doesn't have hardly any iron in it.

[ May 05, 2004, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: Schmoe ]

 

[zeke]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses and will give serious consideration to all of them. Regarding the high-flow filters, I'll have to do more research before making any changes, but again, I appreciate the response. As I mentioned above, the turbo engines on these Saabs develop quite a bit of torque at low rpms. It's very important that the oil pressure is substantial at these low rpms so that the oil squirters at the undersides of the pistons function properly. A lighter weight oil, I would theorize, might not give sufficient pressure at these low rpms. Then again, a more restrictive oil filter wouldn't help, either. So, I will do some more research on this and make my decision on the filter.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schmoe:
This is about 0.86 ppm of lead per 1K miles. That's pretty dang good. I don't know if you could improve on that or not.

---

You never know, I didn't think it was possible for my LT1 engine to ever see less than 2ppm of lead per 1000 miles, but on my last UOA it worked out to 0.4 ppm per 1000 miles, and as mentioned that is with double the cylinders too.

I'm not saying for him to switch oils, just try a different filter. I strongly believe the PureONE filter is a restriction to oil flow on a hard driven car, based on all of the independant tests we've seen on here.

 

[quadrun1]

From what I've seen, SAAB turbo engines tend to have higher lead readings than most. Here, the lead has fallen to about half of what it used to be--I think it's a fine report.

 

[Schmoe]

Gotcha' Patman. That was my initial feeings too, about the PureOne filter tests, that is. But what made me question the flow was temperature. The Mercruiser filter test posts showed lower, restricted flow as compared to other filters, BUT at room temperature. You and I both know that it will flow better when the oil temperature has reached nominal status. With that in mind, I had question that flow when it's cold outside and the initial first crank. I suspect that the filter would then be in full by-pass mode to compensate. I have learned lately from reading on here that each manufacturer has different pressure setting requirments for by-pass mode. I have pondered just because a particular filter would fit, would it still meet the psi requirements. Maybe in this case, the filter and engine match perfectly and hence the great UOA.

 

[Eiron]

Wow zeke, another stellar 15W-50 report! This just further reinforces my belief in higher HT/HS ratings for Saab turbo engines. If I don't get the results I want from M1 5W-40, I'll seriously consider surrendering to the almighty power of this oil, winter temps be ****ed.

It doesn't sound like you even want to drive this car all thru the winter. Is that correct?

 

[zeke]

Thanks Eiron,

You're right - I don't want to drive my 9000 thru the winter.
Well, I'd like to get a 2nd 9000, to be honest. It would mean less mileage on the present one, which I'd like to keep until I die! I think it is the most unique family sedan ever produced: name another family sedan that uses a more robust engine, is safer, uses an engine management system where the spark plug is used as THE main sensor to collect data, or has a larger interior - there aren't any. My present 9000 gets over 300 hp with the only hardware changes being a larger exhaust and larger injectors. It is very mild tuning. There are people in Sweden who get well over 400 hp (the guy who did the software in mine gets over 450 hp with his) with the stock pistons and crankshaft - all this in a 4 cylinder engine, that doesn't suffer from piston slap, I might add

People always rave about the C5 'vettes getting 30 mpg, but my 9000 will carry 4 people quite comfortably, and get more than 30 mpg on the highway. But anyway, to answer your question: I don't want to drive my present 9000 all through the winter. When the roads are clean, dry and the temperatures aren't too cold, I will take it out. Actually, it's more fun to drive when the temperatures are in the 20's because the engine management allows greater boost pressures

By the way, are you aware that the Swedes get a 5W-50 version of M1? - at least this what Dr. Boost, who works at saab engine development, told me.

 

[Eiron]

Yes, I believe Dr. Boost (along with Vikingman) was also one of the first to identify 0W-40 full syn as factory fill.

I hear ya on the astounding versatility of these machines. They're "The Original SUV" (as in "Swedish Utility Vehicle," but "Sport" is more appropriate here than tagged on a truck). My wife is continually frustrated by my reluctance to give up my '90 in favor of something "better" (which, to her, simply means "newer"). But for all the reasons you've mentioned, it's a car I'd like to keep as long as possible.