Lug Nut and Wheel Lubrication?

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
My lug threads always look dry when I remove the lug nuts. The 3-in-1 type oil is probably volatile enough to evaporate when exposed to the heat from the hubs.


Why then, use 3-in-1 type oil? Worst of both options.

My "experimental" polythene doesn't seem to evaporate much. Anti-seize also has solid components which wont evaporate.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: jjjxlr8
I still use the factory torque settings with these and have not had any stretched studs in the last 20 years since I've been suing these products.


Yeh, the threat of constant litigation should keep them honest. I'm told its the American way.

 

[barryh]

No question that dry is correct from an Engineers point of view but I'm pragmatic enough to have used a little grease for the last 40 years same as most everyone else. These days I reduce the torque value in compensation but didn't for the first 30 years.

Normal lug nuts or bolts aren't really the problem as you can jump on a 3ft breaker bar if needed because some gorilla overtightened them with an impact gun. The real scary problems arise when they do that to a locking wheel bolt which are just not designed for anything more that the correct torque. It's easy to damage the key and bolt mating surfaces and end up being unable to remove the bolt. I had nightmares with this problem after buying my current car. Ended up with a jack between the garage wall and the socket pushing the key hard into the locking bolt while I jumped on a 3ft bar.

Locking wheel bolt storage case says in big bold letters "on no account must these bolts be tightened with an impact gun"
Perhaps the IQ of the person who tightened them was so low they couldn't read.

If I can help it no one touches my lug bolts but me or I specifically ask them not to over torque and I loosen and re-torque them straight afterwards anyway.

 

[Ducked]

When I was at Leeds University (and dinosaurs were starting to make our oil) I was in a car "syndicate" group of friends who bought a car at auction. We took it for a "free safety check" which generated a long list of expensive sounding faults, most of which seemed to be fictional on later investigation.

We said no thanks, bought some oil off them, they powered our wheels back on and we got our car back.

When it came time to remove the wheels, I had to steal a 12 foot scaffolding pole.

Lesson learned early. No avoidable involvement with garages since.

 

[Errtt]

Bout all I've done beside replacing is clean them up a little with a wire brush.

 

[DBMaster]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
My lug threads always look dry when I remove the lug nuts. The 3-in-1 type oil is probably volatile enough to evaporate when exposed to the heat from the hubs.


Why then, use 3-in-1 type oil? Worst of both options.

My "experimental" polythene doesn't seem to evaporate much. Anti-seize also has solid components which wont evaporate.


I use it because there is enough residue remaining to keep the threads from seizing while at the same time not enough residue to build up or attract dirt. I've only been doing it since the 1980's.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
My lug threads always look dry when I remove the lug nuts. The 3-in-1 type oil is probably volatile enough to evaporate when exposed to the heat from the hubs.


Why then, use 3-in-1 type oil? Worst of both options.

My "experimental" polythene doesn't seem to evaporate much. Anti-seize also has solid components which wont evaporate.


I use it because there is enough residue remaining to keep the threads from seizing while at the same time not enough residue to build up or attract dirt. I've only been doing it since the 1980's.


Then it isn't "evaporating". I was just reacting to what you said. I couldn't tell you didn't mean it.

Re build up of dirt on studs/stud nut mating surfaces, this doesn't happen with oil or grease (which I've only been using since the 70's) because there isn't clearance for it.

It dowsn't happen with my experimental polythene (which I've only been using for 2 or 3 years) because there isn't clearance for it and it isn't sticky anyway.

It just doesn't happen.

But I doubt it would bother me if it did.

 

[barryh]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
When I was at Leeds University (and dinosaurs were starting to make our oil)


I did a brief Tribology course at Leeds University - again about the time of the dinosaurs.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: barryh
Originally Posted By: Ducked
When I was at Leeds University (and dinosaurs were starting to make our oil)


I did a brief Tribology course at Leeds University - again about the time of the dinosaurs.


I remember seeing the departmental sign and thinking that'd be interesting. IIRC it was on the E side of the campus, opposite the "Sweaty Betty's" chip shop, and a couple of blocks down from the scrapyard.

I wonder how many university canpuses have a scrapyard handy?

 

[Bgallagher]

Originally Posted By: Errtt
Bout all I've done beside replacing is clean them up a little with a wire brush.


+1

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

I have to add some personal experience to this thread.

Last summer I bought a new set of tires for the 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan. I bought Continental Control Contacts from our local Discount tire. Now, I normally put a drop or 2 of ATF on the wheel studs. Just something I do. A habit I developed from living over 40 years in Michigan.

I told the guy at DT about the oiled studs and not to torque the nuts to 110 ft lb. He says we have to torque to factory specs. I says, you will twist the studs off. If you do, you will replace them at your expense.

Sure enough, they twisted the first 2 off and quit on the 3rd. before it broke.

The manager drove us to W/M and we spent the afternoon resting and shopping.

They replaced all 20 studs. It took the manager all afternoon to find 20 new wheel studs.
This is the first time I have had this kind of experience.

I give them props for fixing the mess though.

 

[4WD]

DT twisted 2 off my 2007 Chrysler 300 (I have passed to son) - they were dry. Dealer had them.

I used to see mopar with 5 lugs on trucks after GMC went 6 on the same leve truck ... Always wondered about that ...
(Even my Canyon is 6 lug)
Been working on my stuff for 40 years and never twisted any off ...

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: E365
BMW factory service manuals say to put oil on the threads and conical seat of the wheel bolts. At least they did, haven't seen one in a while.


Yesterday I put the winter wheels/tires on my car. Unlike previous years, this year I put some Loctite Marine Antiseize (lubricity K factor = 0.18) on the stud threads and on the lug nut seating surface. Allowable torque for my Subaru is 74-89 ft-lb. I derated by 10% from maximum and used 80 ft-lb. I will be checking the lug nuts periodically over the winter to see if they loosen.

 

[4WD]

Been wondering the coefficient with WD40 ? Anyone know ?

 

[Merkava_4]

Use an acid brush and paint on some Permatex silver anti-seize to the lug stud threads.

Leave the conical mating surface dry.

 

[Reggaemon]

Has anyone that oiled their wheel studs or the conical
area of the wheel nut ever had a wheel come loose?

 

[mjoekingz28]

I havent noticed if they ever have, but my owner's manual makes a warning out of it.

 

[Nigel_The_Great]

Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
Has anyone that oiled their wheel studs or the conical
area of the wheel nut ever had a wheel come loose?


Never.
We have boxes of wheel studs here in the shop and they are covered in oil to keep them from rusting. We've never cleaned the oil off of them prior to install on any machine.

If lube on a stud was ever an issue then we would have connecting rods all over the roads. Once they are torqued properly they never back off and they spend their lives bathed in oil.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: jjjxlr8
They are a two-piece design so the lower portion does not rotate against the surface of the wheel once there is enough pressure on it.


Those work almost like Toyota's lug nuts for alloy wheels - a two-piece piloted nut that bears down on a washer that makes contact with the wheel. Trucks and buses use a two-piece wheel nut assembly in some cases as well.

McGard does a lot of OEM business as well, I'm not surprised if they adapted this from an OEM design.

 

[barryh]

Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
Has anyone that oiled their wheel studs or the conical
area of the wheel nut ever had a wheel come loose?


Never in 45 years of lubing them and not heard of it happening on a passenger car. But it must happen as you see heavy goods vehicles with those plastic wheel nut indicators fitted to make any movement obvious.