Lug Nut and Wheel Lubrication?

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Bad idea-you want as much friction as possible between the lug nut & wheel, and the lug nut & stud-otherwise they may not stay tight...



Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
No, I just wouldn't lubricate them. You're counting on the cone surface to grab the wheel, & the threads to grab the stud, or bad things are much more likely to happen. I would rather twist off & replace rusty lugs & studs than have a wheel fall off at 70 on the interstate-that leads to heavy damage, possible rollover, even death.




I think you're mistaken.

Friction doesn't retain your wheels. It's a clean, true mating surface and clamping force. What causes wheel offs in most cases is dirt, rust or corrosion in between the mating surfaces. Tightening the lug nuts down on the studs clams the wheel down. Debris allows the wheel to move, therefor causing the the lug nuts to loosen. Lubricating the threads can reduce the friction it takes to tighten the nut and still allow the same or move clamping force.

Try this- next time you have a tire off, tighten the lug nuts to... a value less than OE and road test. Make sure to take some curves. Come back and recheck the torque- they'll be loose. Road test again, same circuit. Re-check again- they won't be as loose or not at all. Why? Small amounts of debris allowed your wheel to move around on the hub surface. As you come back and re-torque and that debris is smashed flat or has fallen out, there is less movement and the stay tighter or don't loosen at all. It will vary on how much debris there is as well as rim material, nut design and final torque.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
put all my strength and weight into it,pulling it,and finally broke them loose.


Who put them on last?


Discount Tire. I usually take off my wheels and drop them off to have tires mounted. I'm thinking I'd gotten lazy and just had them do it.

 

[4wd]

That many years too - only just with WD40 to inhibit rust and galling - purge the angel hair - wipe excessive fluids away - don't consider that stuff much of a lubricant...I do like to hit the flat contacts with a wire brush if needed.

 

[bonjo]

I had this dilemma for many year. As I understand, you get corrosions between the two types of metal like alloy & steel. I have had it on the nuts and sometimes suspension fasteners that don't get undone for long periods.
In the end I decided to put high temp grease (e.g.copperease) and monitor the tightness over a long period of time. Happy to say nothing moved nor come loose

I went through the same exercise again regarding my motorbike and was worried about over torquing. I eventually talked to loctite and was told that torque figures are not normally for dry components as this does not reflect real life garage/ maintenance situation otherwise as the thread picks up dirt and oil and you need to clean and degrease them each time before tightening.
So I use the normal torque setting when I use either light smearing of grease or loctite. If not comfortable, i sometimes drop the torque by 10%

 

[double vanos]

Since my rotations happen after oil service, I use the oily rag that wiped everything off to lubricate the taper part of the wheel and lug nut and put a drop or two of 3 in 1 oil on the threads before torqueing. This of course happens after cleaning wheel hubs and mounting surfaces.

Never a problem.

 

[E365]

BMW factory service manuals say to put oil on the threads and conical seat of the wheel bolts. At least they did, haven't seen one in a while.

 

[stephenbrown22]

i use about three drops of corrosion-x HD on every single lug before tightening ........... 20 years and no problems.......and never a galled nut...............(I do use a calibrated torque wrench though)............

 

[Mr_Joe]

I'm in the camp that likes a little lube, no problems for several decades. YMMV

 

[Lubener]

I have always put a SMALL dab of grease on the threads. I never had a lugnut loosen up at all.

 

[Olas]

3 years of Automotive college education and I was always told to put a dab of copper grease on the threads and a dab on the morning face. Mainly to stop parts 'seizing' together.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
put all my strength and weight into it,pulling it,and finally broke them loose.


Who put them on last?


It doesn't take some heavy-handed know nothing to cause this. Corrosion could easily cause this. I used to have the problem on my old BMW. Full bore on an impact wouldn't release, and it took systematic application of my weight in a long breaker extension to get them to slowly give.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Is putting a little grease on the lug nut to wheel conical mating surface a bad idea, or a good idea?

I have always left this contact surface dry, but I have noticed that in a few of the stud holes on my alloy winter wheels the lug mating surface is getting scored. The lug nuts are hard enough to not get scored.


I generally put a little anti seize on the mounting face. I just wipe the seat clean and the mating surface on the lug. If anything, I'd wipe on and then wipe off.

 

[vintageant]

Vaseline since 1961. Millions of miles across 5 continents. Rallies, races, rallycross. No issues.

 

[Papa Bear]

I've applied a little Never Seez to my studs and surfaces for decades with no bad consequences ..

The only consequence is that everything comes apart later with no undue effort or fuss.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: NibbanaBanana
As far as I know, the wheel nut torques are spec'd for a dry connection. If you lube them you should reduce the torque by 20%-25% or you'll be over torquing them.


IIRC when I looked into this a longish while ago I found "official" published recommendations ranging from 10 to 50% less than the specified figure, which is usually specified dry, probably because lubrication is a poorly controllable variable.

I concluded that with a range like that it just wasn't worth using a torque wrench on wheel nuts, (though it won't do any harm) unless you weren't going to lubricate them, so I don't use one.

The procedure that seemed most likely to be accurate, was to torque them dry, noting the angular movement from, say, finger tight, and then repeat the same angular movement lubricated. I have done that in special cases, but not for wheel nuts.

Torque doesn't measure elongation, as someone suggested above. Torque is a proxy for elongation, and an inaccurate one at best.

 

[DBMaster]

My lug threads always look dry when I remove the lug nuts. The 3-in-1 type oil is probably volatile enough to evaporate when exposed to the heat from the hubs. I use my cheap, never calibrated, click torque wrench set to 80 lb-ft. It's worked for me for a few hundred thousand miles. You really can over-think things, you know!

 

[nthach]

A bit of anti-seize on the threads and hand torque to around OEM specs - I keep a beam-type torque wrench for wheels, it's not accurate so I go +/- 5ft-lbs from OEM spec.

 

[demarpaint]

I tighten them up dry, and have done so for a very long time.

 

[thescreensavers]

I put a little anti seize on the threads, no issue at all you just reduce torque by 15-20% they will not loosen. If you do not torque them enough then they will loosen nothing to do with lubricating the threads.

Machine threads used on studs do not offer any "back driving lock" they drive forward as easily as reverse, so lubed or not proper torque is king.

Clamped force and joint stiffness plays a roll in how much load the lug nut/stud will see from road usage, if its too low a torque of a torque the nut/stud will see more load and can possibly become loose. If proper torque is achieved and still loosening the wheel may not have been flat on the hub and or nut/thread is damaged

 

[jjjxlr8]

Back when I was swapping out my wheels/tires every weekend for autocross, I began using these lug nuts to eliminate the galling on the expensive wheels. They are a two-piece design so the lower portion does not rotate against the surface of the wheel once there is enough pressure on it. I now use these lug nuts on all my vehicles with nice wheels that I want to protect. I still use the factory torque settings with these and have not had any stretched studs in the last 20 years since I've been suing these products. I always use a torque wrench when tightening lug nuts.