Lug Nut and Wheel Lubrication?

[SubLGT]

Is putting a little grease on the lug nut to wheel conical mating surface a bad idea, or a good idea?

I have always left this contact surface dry, but I have noticed that in a few of the stud holes on my alloy winter wheels the lug mating surface is getting scored. The lug nuts are hard enough to not get scored.

 

[Ducked]

Good idea. Unless (a) you use a torque wrench and (b) you worry that the grease will mean the specified torque settings are no longer valid.

I don't (a) so I don't have to (b).

Lately I've been putting a small strip of thin polythene sheet (refuse bag) in the nut as an anti-seize/thread lock. This overlaps a bit when its tightened so would protect the mating surface, though I don't have alloy wheels to worry about (which seems to be what they are for).

Any excess can be pulled off.

 

[bullwinkle]

Bad idea-you want as much friction as possible between the lug nut & wheel, and the lug nut & stud-otherwise they may not stay tight...

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Bad idea-you want as much friction as possible between the lug nut & wheel, and the lug nut & stud-otherwise they may not stay tight...


Bullwinkle: As much friction as possible? That'd perhaps be epoxy then?

I once tried sunflower oil which ends up pretty close to epoxy. I can guarantee your wheels won't come off then, unless you try really really hard.

 

[Kira]

I've been using a thin smear of anti-seize and "half the torque" for decades as have my friends.

I tighten by feel and have never had a problem of any kind.

I've heard and DO NOT discount the caveats but I cannot imagine my 2 "not strong" sisters having to deal with a flat with rusted lugs.

Flame suit ON. Kira

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Bad idea-you want as much friction as possible between the lug nut & wheel, and the lug nut & stud-otherwise they may not stay tight...


Bullwinkle: As much friction as possible? That'd perhaps be epoxy then?

I once tried sunflower oil which ends up pretty close to epoxy. I can guarantee your wheels won't come off then, unless you try really really hard.
No, I just wouldn't lubricate them. You're counting on the cone surface to grab the wheel, & the threads to grab the stud, or bad things are much more likely to happen. I would rather twist off & replace rusty lugs & studs than have a wheel fall off at 70 on the interstate-that leads to heavy damage, possible rollover, even death.

 

[DBMaster]

I've put light machine oil on the lug threads for over thirty years. I do use a torque wrench. Haven't had any issues with nuts loosening and never had a seized lug.

 

[NibbanaBanana]

As far as I know, the wheel nut torques are spec'd for a dry connection. If you lube them you should reduce the torque by 20%-25% or you'll be over torquing them. I guess you could warp a wheel or over stress a stud. That said, the salt is so bad around here that on vehicles that don't get many miles, I've had the road wheel rust fast to the drum or rotor. To the point where I had to hammer them off with a sledgehammer or pop them off with a 3 foot pry bar. I do usually put a little white lithium grease between the two in these cases.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted By: NibbanaBanana
As far as I know, the wheel nut torques are spec'd for a dry connection. If you lube them you should reduce the torque by 20%-25% or you'll be over torquing them. I guess you could warp a wheel or over stress a stud. That said, the salt is so bad around here that on vehicles that don't get many miles, I've had the road wheel rust fast to the drum or rotor. To the point where I had to hammer them off with a sledgehammer or pop them off with a 3 foot pry bar. I do usually put a little white lithium grease between the two in these cases.


The 25% overtorque from proper dry-spec torque plus grease is MUCH less than what most shops apply with the air gun (around 500 lb-ft or so)

For example:
Dry torque spec: 80 lb-ft
Dry tq spec plus lube: 100 lb-ft
Shop's impact gun: 5-600 lb-ft, and often uneven at that!

 

[Rand]

If I start having sticking I will put the smallest amount possible antisieze on the back of the wheel.

If the lugs or studs are getting crusty a small amount boeshield t-9 works well. I try to avoid the conical mating surface and just get the threads very lightly.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I've put light machine oil on the lug threads for over thirty years. I do use a torque wrench. Haven't had any issues with nuts loosening and never had a seized lug.


OP is asking about the acorn surface. If I were to try to justify lubing the threads it would be that "at least the acorn surface is dry and will provide some friction."

When you accellerate and brake the twisting can get 1/1000 of an inch of movement back and forth between the lug hole and the acorn of the lug nut. This can work the lug loose.

You need some surface that looks bad, basically, to take one for the team.

 

[aquariuscsm]

After all the pure [censored] I had getting my wheels off when I rotated them this past weekend,a small amount of lube seems like a great idea. I actually had the end of the lug wrench go through the sole of my Asics while I was jumping up and down on it trying to break them loose. That's how tight those things were. What I ended up doing,I sprayed some Royal Purple Max Film at the very base of the lug nuts,then got this huge iron pipe wrench I have and clamped it onto the end of the lug wrench. I put all my strength and weight into it,pulling it,and finally broke them loose.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
put all my strength and weight into it,pulling it,and finally broke them loose.


Who put them on last?

 

[andyd]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
put all my strength and weight into it,pulling it,and finally broke them loose.


Who put them on last?
Yah, my lugs get tightened with the wrench I carry in that vehicle. Each lug bolt or stud is lubed with chassis grease. As is the hub. None have fallen off or even loosened.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Bad idea-you want as much friction as possible between the lug nut & wheel, and the lug nut & stud-otherwise they may not stay tight...


Bullwinkle: As much friction as possible? That'd perhaps be epoxy then?

I once tried sunflower oil which ends up pretty close to epoxy. I can guarantee your wheels won't come off then, unless you try really really hard.
No, I just wouldn't lubricate them. You're counting on the cone surface to grab the wheel, & the threads to grab the stud, or bad things are much more likely to happen. I would rather twist off & replace rusty lugs & studs than have a wheel fall off at 70 on the interstate-that leads to heavy damage, possible rollover, even death.
In 350 thousand miles on one Camry I've never had a alloy wheel lug nut loosen with Permetex antiseize applied. I lower the torque from the factory 79 pounds to 70 to compensate. As they say, torque measures elongation.

 

[HangFire]

Been putting a SMALL amount of anti-seize on the threads of lugnuts of many vehicles for over 30 years and nearly a million miles. I started when I had to change a tire after a tire shop had hammered the lug nuts on with an impact wrench, and I almost couldn't get the wheel off. I had to borrow a 3' breaker bar to get it off.

Never had one come loose once.

 

[BrianF]

I use a small dab of anti seize and torque by hand. Mind you these are 1/2 ton and smaller vehicles. Never had an issue. Ever. It makes braking the nuts loose a little easier, as well as being able to spin them off by hand. I also check the torque a few times per year. Again, never any problems.

 

[Brybo86]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I've put light machine oil on the lug threads for over thirty years. I do use a torque wrench. Haven't had any issues with nuts loosening and never had a seized lug.


Agreed.

I use a tiny dab of grease on lug nut threads as well as a very thin smear on hub mating surface and torque to spec.

Never a problem in over 200,000 miles. No loose lug nuts, no funny tire wear, none.

People cry about over tightening with lube yet shops gorilla torque them with an impact and they aren't even damaged???

 

[bioburner]

I try use a dab of anti seize on threads and hand tighten(air run down etc,) and check them again in twenty to fifty miles with a star wrench. No issues in 40 plus years on road vehicles.

 

[buck91]

I wouldnt grease the conical mating surface but all this jive about anti seize on lug nuts being a problem really erks me. I've been putting a moderate amount of anti seize on my lugs since I got my first car. NEVER had ANY problems. I also always torque to the low end of mfg spec, using a calibrated torque wrench.