- Messages
- 1,396
- Location
- Indiana
There's good money to be made selling oil additives:
(and they don't even live here in Indiana, this is just sort of a vacation stopover when they're in town from California)
Lucas Oil
- Thread starter gmh101358
- Start date
- Messages
- 4,232
- Location
- Kansas
Valvoline and Lucas Oil Stabilizer?? Nothing is too low for him is it. Just when it couldn't get any worse. Wouldn't be worried if it's Dexos approved as it's a GM spec and Toyota is in a league way above that. I would recommend you try something though...try mobil 1 hm by itself. Also,take that bottle of lucas and pour a cup worth into a empty glass and stick in freezer for 24 hours to lightly simulate the cold weather. Now try to pour it out of the cup.Imagine trying to pump that at -20 in New England??
- Messages
- 16,131
- Location
- Upper Midwest
Sure if the winter rating of the oil was appropriate for the expected starting conditions. That's what demonstrates the cold weather performance, not necessarily the base stock composition.
- Messages
- 3,649
- Location
- Roanoke Virginia
Oh is Valvoline bad oil? He likes about any brand of oil it used to be only Toyota genuine oil he would run in it but he got tired of paying for it at the dealership price lol. Then he moved to Valvoline which is $17 for 5 quarts way cheaper than the Toyota oil. I don’t think he would pay Mobil 1 price because he hates putting money into it as old as it is.
What is wrong with Valvoline?
- Messages
- 1,162
- Location
- Berks County/Pa.
SNAKE OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
- Messages
- 44,800
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Unfortunately, since they are using the 4-ball wear test (gear oils and greases) and stating it is a particularly relevant test anything that comes after that is of zero value unless you are putting the product in a differential or some other system that requires an EP lube.
Strokenmerc
Site Donor 2021
- Messages
- 186
- Location
- Va
This seems to be a never ending struggle
So $17 for the Valvoline, but $22 is too much for M1? How much does the LOS cost? Nothing wrong with Valvoline BTW
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
- Messages
- 44,800
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
No, nothing is wrong with Valvoline, they make excellent oils. He shouldn't be defiling it with Lucas though.
Lucas Deep Clean fuel system cleaner with PEA is excellent. Their power steering stop leak product is excellent. It has absolutely stopped steering leaks for me. Lucas UCL fuel system treatment their mild cleaner was analyzed here a number of years ago and had detergents and dispersants in it, polyisobutylene succinate and a few others. The only going against it here is the Bob hive mind mentality, and that Lucas is not a site sponsor.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
- Messages
- 44,800
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
The main opposition against their products here is that they sell snake oil that claims myriad miracles and if they are willing to peddle total bovine excrement for one family of products, what kind of confidence should that inspire in anything else they are putting their name on?
If somebody sold you a cartridge that claimed to make your gun shoot around corners, take down a target at 50 miles and dramatically improve accuracy, regardless of what your rifle is, and this applies whether your gun shoots .22LR or .50BMG, would you trust anything else with their name on it? I sure as hell wouldn't, I'd avoid it like the plague, which is exactly what I do with Lucas.
Understand to a point about having limited or no confidence...
However.... Independent testing showed the Lucas oil octane booster was legit. 3 whole numbers... 30 points. As good as Royal Purple and VP madditive unleaded octane booster...
The Lucas oil fuel system cleaner is a very good product.
Lucas oil slick mist has been well regarded on here too.
Lucas oil power steering fluid has worked well for people on here too.
One bad apple does not spoil the basket in this case my friend.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
- Messages
- 44,800
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
But there are other products from vendors that aren't shady that do the same job. Why reward them for their behaviour? Clearly they lack the moral compass to do the right thing, otherwise they'd never have peddled that garbage in the first place. If consumers aren't willing to speak with their wallet, what's their incentive to change?
Redline makes an excellent injector cleaner. I don't operate anything that needs more than 91 octane, so that product isn't a concern for me, but if I did, I'd be looking for something from a reputable vendor that doesn't have a history of flagrantly capitalizing on consumer ignorance and stupidity there as well. Valvoline makes a Maxlife power steering fluid and Mobil 1 ATF works in most power steering systems of the vehicles I've owned and performed very well.
As I said, I choose not to do business with companies that willfully deceive consumers, if you are fine with that practice, that's your business, I've simply vocalized why many of us are not.
I was just making the case.... That one off or bad product does not mean all other are not bad or screwed up... They aren't.
And I believe in personal responsibility... People need to take ownership of what they decide to put in their vehicles....
And someone using the oil stabilizer can read up on that product if they choose to...
How many destroyed motors have been attributed to using the oil stabilizer? ?
I'm not saying it has not happened... Just a question about the commonality of that being a documented.
I do not see a lot of difference between that product and STP...
And I believe in personal responsibility... People need to take ownership of what they decide to put in their vehicles....
And someone using the oil stabilizer can read up on that product if they choose to...
How many destroyed motors have been attributed to using the oil stabilizer? ?
I'm not saying it has not happened... Just a question about the commonality of that being a documented.
I do not see a lot of difference between that product and STP...
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
- Messages
- 44,800
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
I don't use STP either, though STP doesn't present itself as an "oil stabilizer" the very notion of which is utterly absurd. STP also has ZDDP apparently, not that this is inherently beneficial, but that puts it a step above Lucas. It claims to be a product that increases viscosity and contains AW additives, so I'd consider their marketing a bit less shady than Lucas, but that's about it.
I liken LOS as a product to being more to Motor Honey, which claims to work to reduce or eliminate smoke in your worn-out jalopy. This is achieved via a significant increase in viscosity, just like Lucas, and I expect it has no AW additives, just like Lucas. The difference is that Motor Honey is targeted towards engines already on their last legs while Lucas claims all kinds of miracle nonsense and they recommend putting it in brand new engines, the thought of which makes me shudder. Imagine taking an oil that has gone through the Porsche A40 sequence, blended with very high quality bases and a perfectly crafted additive package and then defiling it with the cheapest base oil out of the distillation tower dosed with a huge load of the cheapest possible VII, a squirt of red dye and some bar lube tackifier for good measure and then honestly thinking that the resultant watered-down concoction is an improvement.
Remember, most people know absolutely nothing about oils and lubricants, telling them what LOS is may not mean a whole heck of a lot and that goes for mechanics and enthusiasts. This site is the exception, not the rule.
Like with Motor Honey, often times these products are used in engines already on their last legs, so there is absolutely no recourse there. When used from new, maybe you reduce the life of the engine by some arbitrary amount. Let's say for the purpose of this discussion you lose 300,000 miles, so it's got significant blowby at 8-10 years and 150,000 miles. At that point you are already well out of warranty, so where's the recourse there? LOS isn't going to cause immediate catastrophic engine failure when added in the concentration advised. It dilutes the additive package, increases viscosity and I expect increases deposit formation, varnish formation, wear...etc. But all of those things would happen slow enough that it would be very hard for Average Joe to be able to pin it on Lucas and he/she would probably blame it on the "junk OEM" saying "that 5.3L GM pile wore out way too soon, started drinking oil at 90K even though I had Lucas in it at every fill! Typical GM garbage, imagine how long it would have lasted if I hadn't looked after it the way I did."
People get invested in the mindset that this stuff "works". It's the easiest with products whose claimed performance is, for the most part, impossible for them to qualify. It becomes propped up by the butt dyno, their hearing and they toss out words like "smooth" and "peppy". Probably the only truly Joe Average qualifiable characteristic is oil consumption and if you are dealing with an engine drinking oil, it has a problem.
Man...he did something right for a truck driver.....i was a computer programmer and ended up in a van down by the river.....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Again... I largely agree with you on the above...
About that particular product...
However... There are a number of other products that are actually legitimate and quite good.
I still feel like people should be careful what they do with their vehicles, washing machine, dishwasher etc etc....
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
- Messages
- 44,800
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
I understand that, as I said, my personal position is simply that I won't deal with them because of their business practices. That doesn't mean they don't have their name on products that may be decent or even quite good in their respective realm. Luckily, there are usually myriad choices, some of which I already noted, from various other vendors who may choose to do business differently. Mobil is noted for not offering any additive products at all, which is one of the reason I like them. They don't sell you an oil and then a product that claims to make that oil better
Redline makes some good purpose-specific additives like their injector cleaner and they've generally steered clear of gimmicks like the One-arm bandit which I give them credit for. I've used their oil and injector cleaner and would again if in a situation that it made sense.Lucas Deep Clean fuel system cleaner has the same PEA concentration listed as Gumout Regane All-In-One. It’s the same. As for Lucas power steering stop leak I used that and stoped a leaky steering gear under my Kubota tractor in one weekend, that had been dripping for ten years. That was eight ounces of the Lucas added when I changed the fluid. It’s not a matter of thinking it works, or a matter of opinion, the leak stopped and did not come back. People have all sorts of reasons they do choose business with a company or not do business. Your reasons are not my reasons. That’s up to you it’s your money. I have had good experiences with a number of Lucas products.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
- Messages
- 44,800
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
I simply, and clearly, explained the reason many people on this board, myself included, dislike the company because you stated:
wdn said:
Which didn't, in any way, represent that reasoning.
Clearly my reasons aren't your reasons, if they were, you wouldn't be running their products. You have no problem doing business with Lucas, and that's fine, I simply explained that it isn't some hive mind conspiracy or the fact the company isn't a sponsor of this board, it's their shady business practices that turn most of us off, that's the reason, it's that simple.