Lubro Moly in ATF?

[Techniker]

I saw a post on here where someone advocated using Lubri Moly in the ATF to reduce wear. Is this actually true, or will it just cause the clutch packs to wear out more quickly due to the increased friction of the fluid? Is this even safe, and if so, at what concentration?

Thanks,
Techniker

 

[Loobed]

Lubro Moly makes many different products. Which one were you planning on using in the ATF? I have used the MOS2 in my motorcycles with wet clutches and didn't have any problems. I do not think putting it in an automatic car tranny would be a good idea. Try Lube Guard products.

 

[stuntboy79]

Liqui Moly actually makes ATF,maybe that was what they were talking about. Just my .02

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/e_3680.html

 

[Techniker]

Originally Posted By: stuntboy79
Liqui Moly actually makes ATF,maybe that was what they were talking about. Just my .02

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/e_3680.html


You know, I thought that too, but then it was actually referring to adding the LiquiMoly MoS2 to the ATF. I can't imagine it being a good idea but my background is in medicine and chemical engineering, not transmissions. Still, I don't want to bias the discussion against the possibility of what it would do. I'm actually more interested in the academic discussion.

-Techniker

 

[stuntboy79]

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/e_5135.html

 

[Techniker]

Originally Posted By: stuntboy79
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/e_5135.html


Thanks, but that's still not it. No molybdenum in the additive. Let me rephrase my question, what would the effects be of colloidal molybdenum in the ATF?

-Techniker

 

[Loobed]

The only part of the tranny that I think it would be bad for is the fiber clutches and bands. The valve-body, torque converter, and bearings would/should benefit from moly. I don't think moly by itself would be so bad for the clutches. The clutches are porous and would absorb most of the moly. The high ridges of the fiber disks or bands would probably not hold the moly or burn it off after repeated use. The main problem I see is the carrier oil in the LM MOS2. That oil is an engine type oil, and not an ATF oil. I would guess that the carrier oil would do more damage than the MOS2. What would happen if you poured a 1/2 quart of 10w-30 in your tranny.

This might be better.
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/e_1007.html

but it says: "Due to reduction in friction, not suitable for use on fully automatic transmissions or transmissions with wet clutches"

 

[Techniker]

Now this is what I am talking about. I am wondering if the molybdenum in suspension in the transmission would cause the clutch packs to wear more rapidly due to the moly particles in suspension, sort of like the reason people add inline filters to their transmission.

As for the concern about the solvent (carrier oil), I am not advocating pouring half a quart of it into the ATF, but what about a mere 4 oz or 8 oz? In larger transmissions like the Ford Explorer with its 10 quart ATF capacity, this constitutes a mere 1.25-2.5% of the fluid while VERY significantly increasing the amount of molybdenum in the ATF. I don't see how this would be a problem when compared to people who put much larger quantities (approaching 16 oz) of MMO in their ATF without adverse effects and sometimes even improvement. The solvent is essentially the same.

As you can tell, my biggest concern is what it would do to the clutch packs.

-Techniker

 

[unDummy]

If the clutches slip or overheat because of the moly, then they would wear out.

The only thing any automatic transmission needs is a high quality ATF that is serviced regularly.

 

[mechtech2]

Auto tranny clutches are not just friction material. They alternate with discs of metal. And bands are metal.
Don't listen to anyone who pretends to know that the moly will only harmlessly impregnate the friction material, and does not even know that there are metal ones in there!
Moly should be avoided because it will make stuff slip that shouldn't, and when it shouldn't.
A few parts could like the moly, but we have to realize that many systems share the same oil - we have to look at the whole situation.

Sure , some have gotten away with using some, but it is bad advice and bad practice.

 

[Boss302fan]

I believe Moly causes the clutches to slip... I recall a thread from last year that discussed this.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2

Don't listen to anyone who pretends to know that the moly will only harmlessly impregnate the friction material, and does not even know that there are metal ones in there!



Nobody is pretending to know. Please reread the post. The original poster was just starting a discussion. Just because I didn't say there was metal disks doesn't mean I don't know they are there. As stated in my first post I used moly in my motorcycle (ZR7-S 738cc like KZ 750 ) with wet clutches (fiber-metal-fiber-etc) with no slippage. After over 90,000 miles on the clutches I took them apart and measured the thickness. The disks and plates showed zero wear. They looked like the new replacement clutch disk I bought to replace the old ones.

I would not put the moly in an automatic transmission anyways.

 

[mechtech2]

A motorcycle clutch with 90,000 miles and zero wear?

Your credibility is increasing [the wrong way] fast!

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
A motorcycle clutch with 90,000 miles and zero wear?

Your credibility is increasing [the wrong way] fast!



No wear! ...as far as I can tell. I did not measure the disks new, since I bought the bike used with 2000+ miles, and they were installed at the factory. The bike was originally owned by an older person who didn't ride hard, and neither did I. The service manual has a thickness specification that both the disks and plates should be in. They give a high side and a low side. The new disks and plates that I bought to replace the old ones were exactly at the top of the thickness specification. I measured the old ones to see how much they wore, and they were the same as the new once, or within a few tenths. It is different measuring a new fiber disk compared to and oily used fiber disk. The steel plates were clean when I measured them. The only real difference was the new steel plates had a Blanchard ground cross hatch pattern, and the old steel plates were polished in a circular pattern, but the old ones did not show a significant loss in thickness, so to me it didn't wear. I ran mostly Shell 5W-40 synthetic oil and the inside of the motor looked like it was new. The pistons and rings showed the most wear, and then the cams, and then the cylinder bore. The transmission gears looked almost new. I was extremely amazed. This was a street bike and not a supersport race bike.


I forgot to say that the 90K miles were mostly from highway commuting. I drove 50 miles 1 way to work. I used the clutch very little. Maybe 30 times in 100 miles. I went through a lot of clutch cables, and throttle cables, and tires, and brake pads, and chains, etc...

I should not have said ZERO wear. I should have said an insignificant amount of wear in my opinion.