LubriMoly-MOS & Filter Question

[John_Conrad]

Not the best pic here, but i was checking the oil before I left Nebraska for the 300 mile return trip home after thanksgiving:
Cold morning, oil was at full mark, looking dark and thick(all subjective observations)

 

[John_Conrad]

the filter as removed with 4,589 miles on it...

 

[John_Conrad]

pic of what i used, or will be using:

so as I mentioned before, added MMO last weekend and put on close to 800 miles during the week.

added 6 ounces of the B12 chemtool into the cold crankcase prior to oil change, ran engine for 20 minutes, then drained immediately and let it sit open over night.

using over size filter-original should be 3387a but using the 3980 ultra

 

[John_Conrad]

http://www.liqui-moly.us/liquimoly/web.nsf/id/pa_usa_faq.html

From the above linky:

"Can two oil or fuel additives be used simultaneously?
Yes, our additives have been formulated so they have no detrimental effect on each other or the mixture as a whole."

So I think I will continue with my plan:

I will run the pennzoil 5w20 HM for two weeks and two tanks. I will then jack the car up and observe the small oil leaks and see if the HM motor oil may of had any effect on it or not. Mileage on the oil at that time should be close to 500.

Will add the MOS at that time and continue to run with out any fuel additives so that I can establish another base line mpg.

I will likely run like this to my trip south to Texas so that I can also observe the MOS on the open road, giving it plenty of time to do it's thing.

Will make further observations when I return to the midwest and decide if to add any MOS2 at that time.

thanks for everyone's contributions and please continue to add your thoughts as this progresses

jc

 

[John_Conrad]

update on this is as follows:

I drove almost 800 miles on the 5w20 HM pennz(794.2 actual) and ran 2 tanks of fuel. No additional addy's in fuel or oil.

1st tank returned a 24.276 miles per gallons, which is unusually low for my vehcile, but this fuel was not my normal E0 i use, this was my last tank from a trip into Nebraska on thanksgiving and was 87 octane E0. On this tank, I also did the 20 minute run of B12 for a flush, so those 2 variables may explain my low mileage.

my second tank of fuel was my normal fuel at my weekly same station fuel up with 91 octane E0. This tank returned a 32.4 mpg. This mpg is much more what I expect from my weekly drive of 90% highway and 10% city driving.

I do all my fuel ups until the tank will take no more, so I can eliminate that variable from the equation.

taking the 24.276 and 32.4 mpg and averaging them I have a 28.338 mpg average on the oil alone.

I added the MOS yesterday afternoon, the MOS is a very nice almost clear but with a hint of tan color to it. I was impressed with how it looked and flowed.

I will observe it over a couple of tanks and report back.

and on edit:

the minor oil leak did not appear to have been helped by the HM oil alone at least on the first 800 miles, as i jacked up the vehicle and checked yesterday morning,so i went ahead with the MOS.

I have new card boards to put under the vehicle this evening so i can track this also.

 

[kschachn]

With that variation seen in only two tanks, how could you ever possibly ascertain a small change due to the additive?

This is even worse than that article that I linked a while back where even at the same station (and same grade) the energy density of gasoline varied 4%. The article concluded that it is impossible to determine real-world fuel economy without extraordinary measures including using test fuel designed to be uniform. Besides fuel the effects of wind, weather, and driving style/habits were just too large to give meaningful results.

This is precisely why anyone who tries to show that a small change in fuel economy is due to a specific variable is just fooling themselves.

Originally Posted By: John_Conrad
update on this is as follows:

I drove almost 800 miles on the 5w20 HM pennz(794.2 actual) and ran 2 tanks of fuel. No additional addy's in fuel or oil.

1st tank returned a 24.276 miles per gallons, which is unusually low for my vehcile, but this fuel was not my normal E0 i use, this was my last tank from a trip into Nebraska on thanksgiving and was 87 octane E0. On this tank, I also did the 20 minute run of B12 for a flush, so those 2 variables may explain my low mileage.

my second tank of fuel was my normal fuel at my weekly same station fuel up with 91 octane E0. This tank returned a 32.4 mpg. This mpg is much more what I expect from my weekly drive of 90% highway and 10% city driving.

I do all my fuel ups until the tank will take no more, so I can eliminate that variable from the equation.

taking the 24.276 and 32.4 mpg and averaging them I have a 28.338 mpg average on the oil alone.

I added the MOS yesterday afternoon, the MOS is a very nice almost clear but with a hint of tan color to it. I was impressed with how it looked and flowed.

I will observe it over a couple of tanks and report back.

and on edit:

the minor oil leak did not appear to have been helped by the HM oil alone at least on the first 800 miles, as i jacked up the vehicle and checked yesterday morning,so i went ahead with the MOS.

I have new card boards to put under the vehicle this evening so i can track this also.

 

[John_Conrad]

i can explain the 1st tank.

and my mpg is usually around 31 mpg in the winter give or take. that info i have accumulated over many years of driving this vehicle and it has been fairly consistent.

besides i have not made any claims, i'm just putting my observations out here. i know they are not scientific or controlled.

 

[John_Conrad]

update;

after one week of the MOS in the crancase and one tank, i have not noticed any mileage increases as expected, but I just wanted to make my own observations. Mileage on that tank with MOS was 31.2 mpg and I continue to run with no fuel additives. So my mpg averages on my commute continue to be consistent as has been for a long time

As far as the leaks coming from the oil pan gasket, these have been reduced after one week. I will continue to check on this, but I have moved on and added the MOS2 to the crankcase yesterday as I want to run a tank or two of fuel in conjuction with it so that I could observe it during my weekly commute, before my long 2000 mile round trip to Texas

 

[John_Conrad]

update:

the minor or small oil leak on the oil pan gasket has been stopped.

MPG on first tank of fuel with the MOS2 in crankcase netted a 34(33.9 to be exact). this is a number that is not in the range that I normally get in the winter during my commute.

i'm on the second tank of fuel now since adding the MOS2 and this tank will have some commute miles as well as the beginning of my trip south into texas.

i will report on my mpg's on the road. i will not be able to be selective with E0 fuels, but i am interested in what kind of numbers I get any way.

 

[Clevy]

Mos2 needs time to "plate" so I expect by the 3rd tank you'll be seeing a mileage improvement.
In my experience it takes about 500 miles for full effect.

 

[John_Conrad]

it should only get better then....
and i had well over 400 miles on that first tank, so i think i am seeing some effects....

 

[John_Conrad]

Have returned to the midwest(and boy what a winter blast we are having here) LOL

I was unable to to do any mileage testing on the long trip as i try to pay cash for my fuel always and I didn't want to waste time on such a long trip waiting to fuel it up to the very top. I would have to go in and prepay go back to the pump and pump it full then go back and get my change. So I normally just payed an amount I knew the tank would take and only made one trip in to the store then got back on the road as soon as possible.

I will continue testing my mileage on my daily commute this week and post back some observations.

That having been said I hope everyone enjoyed the holidays and made it back home safe.

P.S. The last tank I had in there netted me a 36 or so mpg. This tank was half used on my commute and half on the trip and I did this is a second time i got this high number which is not normal for my winter fuel mpg's.

 

[Jetronic]

You could still have kept accurate records, by adding up all the fuel added and the miles driven, until you fill the tank completely.

MoS2 can indeed help with consumption, if you are driving with economy in mind. The difference will be unnoticeable if you drive like Bo and Luke Duke. The more cylinders you engine has, the bigger the difference becomes

 

[John_Conrad]

thanks for posting and helping me learn jetronic. i will keep that in mind as i continue using the addy's as i bought plenty for my testing.

On another update:

I have about 4k miles on the oil, which is Pennzoil HM 5w20 with a bottle of MOS and a bottle of MOS2 in it.

I pulled the dip stick yesterday to have a look see at the oil and I was not quite a half a quart low(which i refilled with same oil) the oil looked dark black but felt oily-which i take to mean good yet.

However, my mileage on my commute has dropped(and all other variables are the same-except for the cold, but i do not sit there and idle to warm it in the mornings) a minute or so and i go.

First tank mpg since returning from vacation was a 28 and second tank was 30 mpg.

I usually notice a drop in mpg somewhere in there between 4 and 5k miles on my oil and that usually prompts me to do an oil change, however being that i have the addy's in there i thought i might be able to 7500 miles on the oil and use the same fram ultra filter for two turns.

thoughts and thanks for everyone's input on my testing albeit unscientific.

p.s on edit. i may do some pics on oil spots, one warm and one cold. also the oil did "feel thick"

 

[Jetronic]

Depending on the temps you had, it might have taken longer for the engine to get up to working temperature, meaning you drove a larger percentage of the way cold? Both cold coolant (temp value used by engine management) and cold oil (higher losses due to pumping, also higher losses in the transmission) AND colder tyres (less pressure) will make you use mor fuel. also the use of electric stuff like the heater fan and rear window demister has an influence. Batteries discharge more readily in the cold (overnight) so the generator will have more work to do, at about 65% efficiency. Power steering fluid is thicker also etc...

 

[John_Conrad]

thank you for your help, i believe you hit the nail on the head and in this case all the nails!

the cold has been hovering around 0 degrees with many nights in the minuses and even down to minus 20 one night. it has taken 2 cranks of the key to get it to fire every day and in one instance this morning 3 as it sat all weekend. I may load test my battery tonight just to make sure it has not suddenly weakened, it is an interstate but it's been in about 5 or 6 years.

I think that I can continue with my plans to extend this oil interval a bit longer unless if others chime in. The MOS2 should help with TBN.

 

[John_Conrad]

Well, we'll have a run of nice weather for at least 6 days that I can see in the forecast. That warm spell will let me test my mpg in weather that is not severely cold.

 

[John_Conrad]

a 31.5 mpg and a 32 mpg on my last 2 tanks, although not bad numbers-this is really about normal for my vehicle in the winter(with normal temps) with E0 fuel

at a tad over 5k on the oil and addy's i wonder if i should change oil?, i'm not seeing those mpg's over 35 like i saw early on when i first added the mos2.

 

[Jetronic]

how much did you add? depending on the size of the engine and the wear on it, most could have plated out already. or the initial 35 MPG was a fluke?

 

[Clevy]

Motor oil saver will increase TBN helping extend interval.