lubegard red vs platinum. which one to use?

[friendly_jacek]

here is the story. i have this 2003 saturn ion (with 135,000 miles) project car i'm fixing with my son (for him). it has a 5-speed Aisin AF23 (also known as 55-50SN) auto tranny with firm, sometimes clunky shift, especially when cold, unlike the aisin auto trannies I'm used in toyotas. i did one drain and fill with T-IV, the old fluid was burgundy-brown, probably only changed once (saturn requires ATF change every 100,000 miles). the fluid is candy red now, but no difference in shifting. I have some redline D4 ATF left over from my RIP corolla (worked well in corolla also requiring T-IV). i'm planning to do a second drain and fill with redline D4 and lubegard.

here is the thing, lubegard doesn't do a good job explaining which should be used and what the difference is. their pdf table list both red and platinum for this application.

i only used lubegard once, but it was an engine additive. i did nothing for me, but hope the tranny one is better, mostly based on the glowing reviews.

thanks!

 

[Donald]

Try Amsoil ATF and forget the Lubegard.

 

[MolaKule]

Use the D4 and check the fluid level when the engine is hot.

FLuid level should be about half-way between COLD and HOT.

Drive it for about 100 to 500 miles and note shifting.

If still not satisfied with shifting, add Lubegard Red only, since you may have varnished valving or solenoids.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

If still not satisfied with shifting, add Lubegard Red only, since you may have varnished valving or solenoids.


thanks, how exactly red differs from the platinum one?

 

[MolaKule]

LubeGard Platinum was part of ILI's "conversion" fluid suite which added additional friction modifiers.

LubeGard Red is primarily a cleaner, an anti-oxidant, and an AW fluid.

One thing you do not want to do in Automatic transmissions is change the dynamic friction coefficients, since D4, MaxLife, etc, already have the correct friction modifier in its PI package.

 

[zrxkawboy]

LG advertises Platinum as something you can add to the correct ATF for your application, or one that needs to be "converted" to a HFM ATF. So, dump it in Dex in a GM car, and it just "enhances" it. Dump it in the same Dex in a Chrysler, and it knows to "convert" it. How does it know? Frickin magic, I tell ya.

The LG fanboys will be along soon to explain it.

 

[friendly_jacek]

i thought lubegard black did the conversion part?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
i thought lubegard black did the conversion part?


Lubegard Friction modifier suite from low-to-high:

LubeGard Platinum

LubeGard Black (Highly Friction Modified).

The primary point to be conveyed here is:

Quote:
One thing you do not want to do in Automatic transmissions is change the dynamic friction coefficients, since D4, MaxLife, etc, already have the correct friction modifier in its PI package.

 

[Greasymechtech]

http://www.sonnax.com/units/65-55-50SN

http://www.transgo.com/products.php?prd=...p;product_id=61

Coin toss on the Lubegard. IMO, not needed when using upgraded ATF. Redline D4 should be able to do any cleaning and seal conditioning by itself.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

i only used lubegard once, but it was an engine additive. i did nothing for me,


The question is.. What did you expect it to do?
LG red for your transmission.

 

[Boss302fan]

I have used Maxlife ATF with LG red and it has always improved the way the tranny has shifted. Hopefully that means that it will improve the longevity of the transmission. LOL...

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

i only used lubegard once, but it was an engine additive. i did nothing for me,


The question is.. What did you expect it to do?


well, they advertised it as engine quieting add. there was the whole "swiss motor" (IIRC) infomercial how the noisy diesel engines were whisper quiet with it. I knew it was an exaggeration, but expected at least some difference. well, there was a difference, the engine got NOISIER with it. the best i could explain was lubegard thinning down the oil (i used GC 0w30 at that time).

 

[friendly_jacek]

i forgot to mention, but the tranaxle has also mild whine while slowly rolling in drive and reverse or driving @30mph. not bad, but noticeable, probably differential. i have no illusions that fluids/additives will fix it, but it would be nice if they did.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

i only used lubegard once, but it was an engine additive. i did nothing for me,


The question is.. What did you expect it to do?


well, they advertised it as engine quieting add. there was the whole "swiss motor" (IIRC) infomercial how the noisy diesel engines were whisper quiet with it. I knew it was an exaggeration, but expected at least some difference. well, there was a difference, the engine got NOISIER with it. the best i could explain was lubegard thinning down the oil (i used GC 0w30 at that time).


It depends on the source of the noise, doesn't it. A sticking lifter may well be quieted but play in any part that are no stuck cant be fixed by anything in a bottle.
Products in the engine oil are a hail Mary pass, nothing more. Sometimes they work and sometimes not.

In the transmissions LG does a pretty effective job at seal conditioning which is important for controlling pressure in the unit and doing some cleaning of the valve body.
It is not harmful, is cheap enough and IMHO worth using. It does reduce temp by a few degrees. It is also not going to make the dead rise or the bind see.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Trav
In the transmissions LG does a pretty effective job at seal conditioning which is important for controlling pressure in the unit and doing some cleaning of the valve body.
It is not harmful, is cheap enough and IMHO worth using. It does reduce temp by a few degrees. It is also not going to make the dead rise or the bind see.

I agree. First, it isn't harmful to the transmission, second it's cheap so that if it didn't do any good to the transmission the out of pocket cost doesn't hurt.

 

[EricF]

when I called Lubegard, the tech told me the only difference between platnum and red was that plat had an extra addtive in it, but it wasn't to convert the fluid to something else.
In not so many words, it wasn't really a conversion addtive. Just a higher level red.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: EricF
when I called Lubegard, the tech told me the only difference between platnum and red was that plat had an extra addtive in it, but it wasn't to convert the fluid to something else.
In not so many words, it wasn't really a conversion addtive. Just a higher level red.


i decided to google for that. as i was typing lubegard... google offered the search for "lubegard additive scam" in the first line, LOL!

anyhow, their webside shows platinum contains LXE® & SYNERGOL® and converts dexIII/dexVI to mercon V or dexIII/dexVI to T-IV.

red contains LXE® only and does no conversion.

since redline D4 is more than dexIII, i'm thinking it requires no conversion.

BTW, the tranny seems to shift better a couple of weeks later with just fresh T-IV. even the whine seems to be gone.

if I used lebegard, I would be singing praises, LOL!

 

[krismoriah72]

I have a 2001 subaru forester that has had a bad shudder in the transmission under load and shifted pretty firmly. Going up hills i would get alot of vibration and i changed the motor and transmission mounts with little or no help.

I added one small tube of Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder Fixx from Lubeguard that i bought at NAPA a few months ago....and... wow.

Shifting is silky smooth and vibration is gone...its like total night and day. So far im about 10K miles into just adding the small tube but it got rid of all the harsh shifting and vibrations instantly.

I did a few Maxlife ATF fluid changes last year with little or no help to the issues above.

YMMV.

 

[Dexters]

I use Lucas Transmission Fix. I didn't have a problem but I do have 191,000 miles on the truck.

I noticed much smoother shifting and at lower rpms.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: EricF
when I called Lubegard, the tech told me the only difference between platnum and red was that plat had an extra addtive in it, but it wasn't to convert the fluid to something else.
In not so many words, it wasn't really a conversion addtive. Just a higher level red.


And that's the difference between a tech and a lubricant chemist.