Timing chain wear (stretch) is reason enough to consider a Dexos1 Gen2 synthetic in a GDI (turbo or non-turbo) engine.
LSPI : Only A Turbo GDI Issue ?
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Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by burla
If the fuel goes into the cylinder and has to wait for spark, the potential for lspi exists. The part I don't understand is why design a di engine that is non turbo? What do you gain, versus potentially loose. The argument for making a di turbo is great fuel economy with no loss in power. Makes the expense of a di worth it in many peoples mind. Without the turbo, I'm not sure the expense of a direct injection is worth it in anyway. Admittedly, I have not looked into it, just curious.
The Mazda Skyactive engines are DI, have 13:1 compression ratio (in the USA) and require only 87 octane fuel. Those engines are performing very well and have not had LSPI problems. The European versions of those engines have 14:1 CR and only require SM rated oil. The US versions only call for SN oil (not SN+ or d1g2).
There are many Mazda videos about how/why they perform Direct Injection. They've analyzed the combustion process down to the finest detail and are able to get an extremely complete and instantaneous combustion without hot spots -and they don't need the complication of a turbo.
Similar to the 2.0 in my 2013 Focus. High compression DI NA motor on regular 87 gas with never an issue with detonation.
Originally Posted by burla
If the fuel goes into the cylinder and has to wait for spark, the potential for lspi exists. The part I don't understand is why design a di engine that is non turbo? What do you gain, versus potentially loose. The argument for making a di turbo is great fuel economy with no loss in power. Makes the expense of a di worth it in many peoples mind. Without the turbo, I'm not sure the expense of a direct injection is worth it in anyway. Admittedly, I have not looked into it, just curious.
The Mazda Skyactive engines are DI, have 13:1 compression ratio (in the USA) and require only 87 octane fuel. Those engines are performing very well and have not had LSPI problems. The European versions of those engines have 14:1 CR and only require SM rated oil. The US versions only call for SN oil (not SN+ or d1g2).
There are many Mazda videos about how/why they perform Direct Injection. They've analyzed the combustion process down to the finest detail and are able to get an extremely complete and instantaneous combustion without hot spots -and they don't need the complication of a turbo.
Similar to the 2.0 in my 2013 Focus. High compression DI NA motor on regular 87 gas with never an issue with detonation.
Originally Posted by turnbowm
Timing chain wear (stretch) is reason enough to consider a Dexos1 Gen2 synthetic in a GDI (turbo or non-turbo) engine.
correct me if im wrong,the film strength of the oil is what protects the chain,redline is not dexos approved but is way tougher the most of the ones that are,at least in the 5w30 weight.
Timing chain wear (stretch) is reason enough to consider a Dexos1 Gen2 synthetic in a GDI (turbo or non-turbo) engine.
correct me if im wrong,the film strength of the oil is what protects the chain,redline is not dexos approved but is way tougher the most of the ones that are,at least in the 5w30 weight.
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
No reports of LSPI in toyota engines with the D4S
At lower speeds the port injection is also operating,
And compression ratio is dropped at low speeds with modified Atkinson equipped engines,
Are you referring to 8AR-FTS engine?
2.0ltr engines are mostly not prone to it. LSPI is most problematic at lower displacement spectrum.
If you referring to naturally aspirated engines with Atkinson cycle, there ain't torque at lower rpms. there AT ALL!
No reports of LSPI in toyota engines with the D4S
At lower speeds the port injection is also operating,
And compression ratio is dropped at low speeds with modified Atkinson equipped engines,
Are you referring to 8AR-FTS engine?
2.0ltr engines are mostly not prone to it. LSPI is most problematic at lower displacement spectrum.
If you referring to naturally aspirated engines with Atkinson cycle, there ain't torque at lower rpms. there AT ALL!
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Originally Posted by benjy
why don't VW-Audi have any reported LSPI issues in ANY engine!
I am telling this people all the time, but you know, European cars...
why don't VW-Audi have any reported LSPI issues in ANY engine!
I am telling this people all the time, but you know, European cars...
Originally Posted by avi1777
Originally Posted by turnbowm
Timing chain wear (stretch) is reason enough to consider a Dexos1 Gen2 synthetic in a GDI (turbo or non-turbo) engine.
correct me if im wrong,the film strength of the oil is what protects the chain,redline is not dexos approved but is way tougher the most of the ones that are,at least in the 5w30 weight.
For your reading pleasure...
http://newscenter.lubrizol.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=250972&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2262546
Originally Posted by turnbowm
Timing chain wear (stretch) is reason enough to consider a Dexos1 Gen2 synthetic in a GDI (turbo or non-turbo) engine.
correct me if im wrong,the film strength of the oil is what protects the chain,redline is not dexos approved but is way tougher the most of the ones that are,at least in the 5w30 weight.
For your reading pleasure...
http://newscenter.lubrizol.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=250972&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2262546
*OP here : Even at a good price I now rule out PUP because no D1/Gen2 rating and the recent version formulation has now doubled the NOACK up to 11.0 thus not much of a deal (even if WM is offering for $19.00 per 5 qrt. jug) . So far , the QSUD 5W30 for $17+ per 5 qrt. jug with D1/Gen 2 rating will be quite good for < 5,000 mile OCI's in order to keep a GDI non - turbo 2.4L in good working order .
Originally Posted by turnbowm
Timing chain wear (stretch) is reason enough to consider a Dexos1 Gen2 synthetic in a GDI (turbo or non-turbo) engine.
Originally Posted by turnbowm
Timing chain wear (stretch) is reason enough to consider a Dexos1 Gen2 synthetic in a GDI (turbo or non-turbo) engine.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
LSPI is a low displacement, high compression, Turbo Direct Injection issue when using API/ ILSAC resource conserving oils.
It's been discussed before, but a European vehicle running a non-resource conserving, ACEA specified oil doesn't share this trait.
But the point is mute now because almost every oil viscosity recommended by the automobile manufacturers is SN+ and/or d1G2.
It's been discussed before, but a European vehicle running a non-resource conserving, ACEA specified oil doesn't share this trait.
But the point is mute now because almost every oil viscosity recommended by the automobile manufacturers is SN+ and/or d1G2.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
No reports of LSPI in toyota engines with the D4S
At lower speeds the port injection is also operating,
And compression ratio is dropped at low speeds with modified Atkinson equipped engines,
Are you referring to 8AR-FTS engine?
2.0ltr engines are mostly not prone to it. LSPI is most problematic at lower displacement spectrum.
If you referring to naturally aspirated engines with Atkinson cycle, there ain't torque at lower rpms. there AT ALL!
True about the torque at low rpm, the low rpm low load mode is to go Atkinson. Pulling a trailer or going up a steep incline from a stop the valve and injection mapping changes. The point is the power band avoids the issue of LSPI.
I agree with another poster when I had the 2012 BMW 328i with the 2.0 GDI turbo, I ran acea A3 oils and never had a problem. That engine was a fun one.
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
No reports of LSPI in toyota engines with the D4S
At lower speeds the port injection is also operating,
And compression ratio is dropped at low speeds with modified Atkinson equipped engines,
Are you referring to 8AR-FTS engine?
2.0ltr engines are mostly not prone to it. LSPI is most problematic at lower displacement spectrum.
If you referring to naturally aspirated engines with Atkinson cycle, there ain't torque at lower rpms. there AT ALL!
True about the torque at low rpm, the low rpm low load mode is to go Atkinson. Pulling a trailer or going up a steep incline from a stop the valve and injection mapping changes. The point is the power band avoids the issue of LSPI.
I agree with another poster when I had the 2012 BMW 328i with the 2.0 GDI turbo, I ran acea A3 oils and never had a problem. That engine was a fun one.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
I have 5 vehicles and only one is "Atkinson" … but it has electric motors for low speed/torque …
That's where they belong …
My DI V8's bring torque earlier than ever … I just use Dexos 1.2 and regular gas, not worried about LSPI …
That's where they belong …
My DI V8's bring torque earlier than ever … I just use Dexos 1.2 and regular gas, not worried about LSPI …
Originally Posted by wemay
But the point is moot now because almost every oil viscosity recommended by the automobile manufacturers is SN+ and/or d1G2.
Fixed that for you.
Moot Point - noun - "An issue regarded as potentially debatable, but no longer practically applicable." (wiktionary)
When friends of mine did laws school, they would argue cases in a Moot Court.
But the point is moot now because almost every oil viscosity recommended by the automobile manufacturers is SN+ and/or d1G2.
Fixed that for you.
Moot Point - noun - "An issue regarded as potentially debatable, but no longer practically applicable." (wiktionary)
When friends of mine did laws school, they would argue cases in a Moot Court.
Originally Posted by LotI
LSPI seems to be a Ford thing. Why else would they use an Ecoboost for GF-6 testing.
Exactly! This is ridiculous, all the measures taken to combat this just for ecoboost. FORD should be the ones building/tuning engines that don't do this. I've had two direct injection engines from 2007 (VW 2.0L FSI and BMW N54) aftermarket tuned for all the turbos were worth (incl ethanol on the N54 and eventually a turbo upgrade on the VW) and never heard of any of this nonsense until Ecoboost started blowing up. Who in the world wants an engine that is an oil choice a way from blowing up. Low rpm, high boost and small turbos have been a bad combination for reliability since the 90's and Corky Bells Maximum boost was the turbo bible. Non the less with technology advances everybody else has managed to do it reliably except Ford.
LSPI seems to be a Ford thing. Why else would they use an Ecoboost for GF-6 testing.
Exactly! This is ridiculous, all the measures taken to combat this just for ecoboost. FORD should be the ones building/tuning engines that don't do this. I've had two direct injection engines from 2007 (VW 2.0L FSI and BMW N54) aftermarket tuned for all the turbos were worth (incl ethanol on the N54 and eventually a turbo upgrade on the VW) and never heard of any of this nonsense until Ecoboost started blowing up. Who in the world wants an engine that is an oil choice a way from blowing up. Low rpm, high boost and small turbos have been a bad combination for reliability since the 90's and Corky Bells Maximum boost was the turbo bible. Non the less with technology advances everybody else has managed to do it reliably except Ford.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Yeah … Kia does not have this issue, right ?
And Dexos is Ford, right ?
No other but Ford ! Awesome ...Ž
And Dexos is Ford, right ?
No other but Ford ! Awesome ...Ž
Last edited:
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Really … oh wow man that's groovy
Originally Posted by stanlee
Originally Posted by LotI
LSPI seems to be a Ford thing. Why else would they use an Ecoboost for GF-6 testing.
Exactly! This is ridiculous, all the measures taken to combat this just for ecoboost. FORD should be the ones building/tuning engines that don't do this. I've had two direct injection engines from 2007 (VW 2.0L FSI and BMW N54) aftermarket tuned for all the turbos were worth (incl ethanol on the N54 and eventually a turbo upgrade on the VW) and never heard of any of this nonsense until Ecoboost started blowing up. Who in the world wants an engine that is an oil choice a way from blowing up. Low rpm, high boost and small turbos have been a bad combination for reliability since the 90's and Corky Bells Maximum boost was the turbo bible. Non the less with technology advances everybody else has managed to do it reliably except Ford.
the 2.0 turbo cadiilac ats and cts are blowing as well,a lot of them.
Originally Posted by LotI
LSPI seems to be a Ford thing. Why else would they use an Ecoboost for GF-6 testing.
Exactly! This is ridiculous, all the measures taken to combat this just for ecoboost. FORD should be the ones building/tuning engines that don't do this. I've had two direct injection engines from 2007 (VW 2.0L FSI and BMW N54) aftermarket tuned for all the turbos were worth (incl ethanol on the N54 and eventually a turbo upgrade on the VW) and never heard of any of this nonsense until Ecoboost started blowing up. Who in the world wants an engine that is an oil choice a way from blowing up. Low rpm, high boost and small turbos have been a bad combination for reliability since the 90's and Corky Bells Maximum boost was the turbo bible. Non the less with technology advances everybody else has managed to do it reliably except Ford.
the 2.0 turbo cadiilac ats and cts are blowing as well,a lot of them.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by 4WD
Yeah … Kia does not have this issue, right ?
And Dexos is Ford, right ?
No other but Ford ! Awesome ...Ž
Ford has never specified dexos (which is a GM spec). Ford has their own oil specs.
The Ford oil specs that end in -B1 have been updated with LSPI tests.
Originally Posted by 4WD
Yeah … Kia does not have this issue, right ?
And Dexos is Ford, right ?
No other but Ford ! Awesome ...Ž
Ford has never specified dexos (which is a GM spec). Ford has their own oil specs.
The Ford oil specs that end in -B1 have been updated with LSPI tests.
Originally Posted by avi1777
Originally Posted by stanlee
Originally Posted by LotI
LSPI seems to be a Ford thing. Why else would they use an Ecoboost for GF-6 testing.
Exactly! This is ridiculous, all the measures taken to combat this just for ecoboost. FORD should be the ones building/tuning engines that don't do this. I've had two direct injection engines from 2007 (VW 2.0L FSI and BMW N54) aftermarket tuned for all the turbos were worth (incl ethanol on the N54 and eventually a turbo upgrade on the VW) and never heard of any of this nonsense until Ecoboost started blowing up. Who in the world wants an engine that is an oil choice a way from blowing up. Low rpm, high boost and small turbos have been a bad combination for reliability since the 90's and Corky Bells Maximum boost was the turbo bible. Non the less with technology advances everybody else has managed to do it reliably except Ford.
the 2.0 turbo cadiilac ats and cts are blowing as well,a lot of them.
The 1.5l DIT in the Chevy Malibu had severe LSPI problems a few years ago...
Originally Posted by stanlee
Originally Posted by LotI
LSPI seems to be a Ford thing. Why else would they use an Ecoboost for GF-6 testing.
Exactly! This is ridiculous, all the measures taken to combat this just for ecoboost. FORD should be the ones building/tuning engines that don't do this. I've had two direct injection engines from 2007 (VW 2.0L FSI and BMW N54) aftermarket tuned for all the turbos were worth (incl ethanol on the N54 and eventually a turbo upgrade on the VW) and never heard of any of this nonsense until Ecoboost started blowing up. Who in the world wants an engine that is an oil choice a way from blowing up. Low rpm, high boost and small turbos have been a bad combination for reliability since the 90's and Corky Bells Maximum boost was the turbo bible. Non the less with technology advances everybody else has managed to do it reliably except Ford.
the 2.0 turbo cadiilac ats and cts are blowing as well,a lot of them.
The 1.5l DIT in the Chevy Malibu had severe LSPI problems a few years ago...
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by SR5
When friends of mine did laws school, they would argue cases in a Moot Court.
Pretty hard to argue in a Mute Court, at least bump it up to a Mime Court, lol.
Lol, and thanks guys.
Originally Posted by SR5
When friends of mine did laws school, they would argue cases in a Moot Court.
Pretty hard to argue in a Mute Court, at least bump it up to a Mime Court, lol.
Lol, and thanks guys.
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