LSPI : Only A Turbo GDI Issue ?

[ChrisD46]

I have a 2017 Sonata non - turbo GDI 2.4L ... ** Do non - turbo GDI engines have any potential LSPI issues to worry about or is LSPI only a turbo GDI issue to be concerned with ?
I ask because I would like to use Pennzoil Ultra Synthetic oil , however it doesn't have the D1 / Gen2 rating with the lower calcium level needed to prevent LSPI ... Thanks in advance !

 

[A_Harman]

How much torque does your engine make, and at what rpm? LSPI only becomes an issue when an engine makes more than ~2.4 ft*lbs/cubic inch at speeds less than 2000 rpm. I don't think the Hyundai 2.4 NA can do that.

 

[LotI]

LSPI seems to be a Ford thing. Why else would they use an Ecoboost for GF-6 testing.

 

[JLTD]

LSPI is a term created by the DI/turbo thing. Before that combo, it was called "lugging" and resulted in "detonation". Although LSPI is more severe, probably a result of trying to wring maximum power from a small engine at low rpms...with boost.

 

[benjy]

why don't VW-Audi have any reported LSPI issues in ANY engine!

 

[Mainia]

Originally Posted by LotI
LSPI seems to be a Ford thing. Why else would they use an Ecoboost for GF-6 testing.


I think I had a LSPI event in my 2018 Hyundai Kona AWD 1.6T, 17lbs boost at 1,450 rpm. Hit the pedal and WHAM!!!!! it came from the engine and it was like the car lifted up 5 feet in the air and let dropped it shook the car that violently. I thought it had to be damaged after that, but everything ran the exact same and I do have a 100,000 drivetrain warranty so time will tell. I also am on boost all the time so it would of gave up the ghost a year ago if it was damaged. That was OEM oil and I switch out to Mobil 1 Extend that day, never to s have an issue again. I also run mid grade or higher only, no to help reduce the chance of another event. I am running Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 that has 900ppm calcium and the current oil is Amsoil 0w-40 at this time. The car is approved 5w30 or 5w-40 with no specs on the 5w-40. I am not a dexos1 Gen 2 fan since I want a higher HTSH viscosity with the cars fuel dilution problem a hair under the 1.5T of Honda.

As far as the OP, it will be fine to run the old version high calcium Ultra....you don't have a turbo.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted by LotI
LSPI seems to be a Ford thing. Why else would they use an Ecoboost for GF-6 testing.


I may be wrong but I think that Ford has had very few problems with LSPI or deposits caused by GDI technology.
Deposits were an issue with Audi and some of the other European makers when GDI first came out....so much so that they required expensive valve cleaning periodically....

 

[burla]

If the fuel goes into the cylinder and has to wait for spark, the potential for lspi exists. The part I don't understand is why design a di engine that is non turbo? What do you gain, versus potentially loose. The argument for making a di turbo is great fuel economy with no loss in power. Makes the expense of a di worth it in many peoples mind. Without the turbo, I'm not sure the expense of a direct injection is worth it in anyway. Admittedly, I have not looked into it, just curious.

 

[RayCJ]

Originally Posted by burla
If the fuel goes into the cylinder and has to wait for spark, the potential for lspi exists. The part I don't understand is why design a di engine that is non turbo? What do you gain, versus potentially loose. The argument for making a di turbo is great fuel economy with no loss in power. Makes the expense of a di worth it in many peoples mind. Without the turbo, I'm not sure the expense of a direct injection is worth it in anyway. Admittedly, I have not looked into it, just curious.


The Mazda Skyactive engines are DI, have 13:1 compression ratio (in the USA) and require only 87 octane fuel. Those engines are performing very well and have not had LSPI problems. The European versions of those engines have 14:1 CR and only require SM rated oil. The US versions only call for SN oil (not SN+ or d1g2).

There are many Mazda videos about how/why they perform Direct Injection. They've analyzed the combustion process down to the finest detail and are able to get an extremely complete and instantaneous combustion without hot spots -and they don't need the complication of a turbo.

 

[Wildcard]

if its sn+ oil, then its formulated to prevent lspi

 

[ZeeOSix]

The new normally aspirated Gen3 Coyote V8 in the Mustang calls for SN+ oil. It's very high compression and DI, so apparently Ford thinks it needs an SN+ in case there's some LSPI.

 

[avi1777]

Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by burla
If the fuel goes into the cylinder and has to wait for spark, the potential for lspi exists. The part I don't understand is why design a di engine that is non turbo? What do you gain, versus potentially loose. The argument for making a di turbo is great fuel economy with no loss in power. Makes the expense of a di worth it in many peoples mind. Without the turbo, I'm not sure the expense of a direct injection is worth it in anyway. Admittedly, I have not looked into it, just curious.


The Mazda Skyactive engines are DI, have 13:1 compression ratio (in the USA) and require only 87 octane fuel. Those engines are performing very well and have not had LSPI problems. The European versions of those engines have 14:1 CR and only require SM rated oil. The US versions only call for SN oil (not SN+ or d1g2).

There are many Mazda videos about how/why they perform Direct Injection. They've analyzed the combustion process down to the finest detail and are able to get an extremely complete and instantaneous combustion without hot spots -and they don't need the complication of a turbo.

also own a mazda but your point is irrelevant beacuse with a turbo u can use a much smaller displacement and get more hp with less fuel consumption,turbo is always more efficient,now they put one in the new cx5.

 

[4wd]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
The new normally aspirated Gen3 Coyote V8 in the Mustang calls for SN+ oil. It's very high compression and DI, so apparently Ford thinks it needs an SN+ in case there's some LSPI.


My L83's are NA but still DI and require Dexos 1.2 … the heads are redesigned around DI …

 

[burla]

Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by burla
If the fuel goes into the cylinder and has to wait for spark, the potential for lspi exists. The part I don't understand is why design a di engine that is non turbo? What do you gain, versus potentially loose. The argument for making a di turbo is great fuel economy with no loss in power. Makes the expense of a di worth it in many peoples mind. Without the turbo, I'm not sure the expense of a direct injection is worth it in anyway. Admittedly, I have not looked into it, just curious.


The Mazda Skyactive engines are DI, have 13:1 compression ratio (in the USA) and require only 87 octane fuel. Those engines are performing very well and have not had LSPI problems. The European versions of those engines have 14:1 CR and only require SM rated oil. The US versions only call for SN oil (not SN+ or d1g2).

There are many Mazda videos about how/why they perform Direct Injection. They've analyzed the combustion process down to the finest detail and are able to get an extremely complete and instantaneous combustion without hot spots -and they don't need the complication of a turbo.


thanks good info

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by Wildcard
if its sn+ oil, then its formulated to prevent lspi

This. SN+ is formulated for LSPI.
Dexos1 Gen 2 is a GM spec, nothing to do with your Hyundai.

A 2017 Sonata can use SM oil if you want.

 

[DirectRejection]

Originally Posted by pbm
Originally Posted by LotI
LSPI seems to be a Ford thing. Why else would they use an Ecoboost for GF-6 testing.


I may be wrong but I think that Ford has had very few problems with LSPI or deposits caused by GDI technology.
Deposits were an issue with Audi and some of the other European makers when GDI first came out....so much so that they required expensive valve cleaning periodically....

Originally Posted by pbm
Originally Posted by LotI
LSPI seems to be a Ford thing. Why else would they use an Ecoboost for GF-6 testing.


I may be wrong but I think that Ford has had very few problems with LSPI or deposits caused by GDI technology.
Deposits were an issue with Audi and some of the other European makers when GDI first came out....so much so that they required expensive valve cleaning periodically....


Ford bought D4-S technology from Toyota.

 

[4wd]

Think most here know that … however Mobil and GM did lots of early testing (M1 was early on this) and folks here tend to use as a default.
Slow walk the Walmart oil aisle and Dexos is easy to spot on the better makes without reading the back labels.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

No reports of LSPI in toyota engines with the D4S
At lower speeds the port injection is also operating,
And compression ratio is dropped at low speeds with modified Atkinson equipped engines,

 

[RayCJ]

Originally Posted by avi1777
Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by burla
If the fuel goes into the cylinder and has to wait for spark, the potential for lspi exists. The part I don't understand is why design a di engine that is non turbo? What do you gain, versus potentially loose. The argument for making a di turbo is great fuel economy with no loss in power. Makes the expense of a di worth it in many peoples mind. Without the turbo, I'm not sure the expense of a direct injection is worth it in anyway. Admittedly, I have not looked into it, just curious.


The Mazda Skyactive engines are DI, have 13:1 compression ratio (in the USA) and require only 87 octane fuel. Those engines are performing very well and have not had LSPI problems. The European versions of those engines have 14:1 CR and only require SM rated oil. The US versions only call for SN oil (not SN+ or d1g2).

There are many Mazda videos about how/why they perform Direct Injection. They've analyzed the combustion process down to the finest detail and are able to get an extremely complete and instantaneous combustion without hot spots -and they don't need the complication of a turbo.

also own a mazda but your point is irrelevant beacuse with a turbo u can use a much smaller displacement and get more hp with less fuel consumption,turbo is always more efficient,now they put one in the new cx5.


The OP asked a question if non-turbo engines were also prone to LSPI -and I provided information to help answer the question.

Now that the issue of Turbos is raised... Mazda's 2.5L turbo engine (available on several models) has the same block and heads as the non-turbo 2.5L but, the compression ratio is reduced to 10.5:1. Yes... turbos get some "free energy" by using exhaust gas to create boost but they also have other complexities and characteristics that offset some of the advantages. Anyhow, the 2.5L Mazda turbo has been in the US since 2017. I follow the Mazda forums and have not heard of any cases of LSPI associated with it.

Ray

 

[E150GT]

I should try to get a video of the noise my engine makes when I run regular gas and am off the gas and then press the gas. It sounds very diesel like. Not good. It doesn't go away completely with premium but it happens very little.