LSJr - Viscosity Breakdown: The Silent Engine Killer Revealed!

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Why does viscosity retention matter? Unless viscosity and HTHS drop significantly, does any of this matter? Yes sure, I prefer a 1% loss compared to a 7% loss.

Take an oil that has a viscosity of 10 cst at 100 C and 3.2 HTHS. A 7% loss results in ~9.3 cst and ~3.0 HTHS.

I’m interested in which oil is better. I’m thinking wear, friction, cost, and cleaning, throughout an oil change interval.

It seems like this thread is focused on viscosity and HTHS characterisation, which is interesting and great learning, but the effects seem far from “ silent engine killing,” as the YouTube video suggests.

On a related side note, it seems that we have sold our souls to YouTube views/subs (and money). We’re busy supporting an algorithm that doesn’t reflect honesty and integrity.
 
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xpeteyjtx said:
Why does viscosity retention matter? Unless viscosity and HTHS drop significantly, does any of this matter? Yes sure, I prefer a 1% loss compared to a 7% loss.

Take an oil that has a viscosity of 10 cst at 100 C and 3.2 HTHS. A 7% loss results in ~9.3 cst and ~3.0 HTHS.

I’m interested in which oil is better. I’m thinking wear, friction, cost, and cleaning, throughout an oil change interval.

It seems like this thread is focused on viscosity and HTHS characterisation, which is interesting and great learning, but the effects seem far from “ silent engine killing,” as the YouTube video suggests.

On a related side note, it seems that we have sold our souls to YouTube views/subs (and money). We’re busy supporting an algorithm that doesn’t reflect honesty and integrity.
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If you have a TGDI small engine and are running 10k mile OCIs on entry level synthetic oil, it’s possible fuel dilution and severe service leaves the engine with less than optimal protection. It’s better insurance to change the oil more often or get a more robust synthetic; perhaps both.

So, not completely without import. As was said, they didn’t even run this test very long as it’s a gear oil test. However, it was meant to demonstrate operating differences of different blends of base oils and VIIs. There is a wide range on the market. Some of today’s TGDI engines have come with drawbacks to longevity. Unless people are doing tear downs, it’s probably cheaper running a better synthetic less prone to breakdown and deposits.

.02
 
xpeteyjtx said:
Why does viscosity retention matter? Unless viscosity and HTHS drop significantly, does any of this matter? Yes sure, I prefer a 1% loss compared to a 7% loss.

Take an oil that has a viscosity of 10 cst at 100 C and 3.2 HTHS. A 7% loss results in ~9.3 cst and ~3.0 HTHS.

I’m interested in which oil is better. I’m thinking wear, friction, cost, and cleaning, throughout an oil change interval.

It seems like this thread is focused on viscosity and HTHS characterisation, which is interesting and great learning, but the effects seem far from “ silent engine killing,” as the YouTube video suggests.

On a related side note, it seems that we have sold our souls to YouTube views/subs (and money). We’re busy supporting an algorithm that doesn’t reflect honesty and integrity.
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An oil that is a 5w30 should ideally remain a 30 grade throughout the drain interval. An oil that drops a few cSt or goes up a few cSt isn't always a concern. A M1 0w40 in a Corvette that ends up a mid 30 grade is unlikely to have any wear performance differences being most engines can run on a large range of grades by default. There are compromises always made in the manufacturer's decision as to what is the most ideal grade to run and oil formulations in general.

It's been said before that some are intentionally designed to shear a bit for more hp. Mobil 1 0w50 could be a reason. Why would Corvette Racing choose a 0w50? Obviously has nothing to do with cost or "marketing" as XOM could whip them up whatever they want. The only reason I believe is they know this oil will likely be a low 40 grade or even high 30 grade but have done so many tear downs they know what works and what doesn't. Anyone can make an oil shear stable.
 
xpeteyjtx said:
Why does viscosity retention matter? Unless viscosity and HTHS drop significantly, does any of this matter? Yes sure, I prefer a 1% loss compared to a 7% loss.

Take an oil that has a viscosity of 10 cst at 100 C and 3.2 HTHS. A 7% loss results in ~9.3 cst and ~3.0 HTHS.

I’m interested in which oil is better. I’m thinking wear, friction, cost, and cleaning, throughout an oil change interval.

It seems like this thread is focused on viscosity and HTHS characterisation, which is interesting and great learning, but the effects seem far from “ silent engine killing,” as the YouTube video suggests.

On a related side note, it seems that we have sold our souls to YouTube views/subs (and money). We’re busy supporting an algorithm that doesn’t reflect honesty and integrity.
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B/c it's the single most important variable for protecting your engine's moving parts so losing it is well...."not good" and as we know here on BITOG, more is always better!
 
TiGeo said:
You can find all my data and most up-to-date trend graph if you look. I did this based on the modifications I was doing and just because it's fun/interesting to have data. You'll see some interesting trends related to engine mods and mechanical issues it's shown. My goal was 100k and after this year I will drop the UOAs most likely.
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I didn't know that you were doing mods that needed that kind of attention. It all makes sense now, thanks.
 
Are the CCS numbers accurate in Lake’s table? This implies that LM 10W-60 has a lower dynamic viscosity at -30 C than M1 5W-50 which is still lower than M1 0W-40. Typically we don’t see oils with different winter ratings expressed at the same temperature as we do here. We normally see -35 C for the 0W, -30 C for 5W, and -25 C for the 10W.
 
Remember that oil formulator Joe90Guy who use to be here?

Years ago I asked him about viscosity shear and it's relationship to HTHS drop. He said for whatever viscosity drop you see, you can expect roughly half that as a HTHS drop. Certainly for the first 4 regular commercial products on the list, that is what we are seeing in the % Shear figures.

I just thought it was worth pointing that out, as a general rule of thumb here, for people who do VOAs and UOAs.

Yes, yes I too can see it doesn't always apply to all the experimental mixtures of base oil and various polymer VII at the bottom of the list. But Joe was referring to the regular stuff most people just grab off the shelves at their local store. Looks like he was correct.

I miss Joe90Guy / SonofJoe, he certainly knew his stuff.
 
SR5 said:
Remember that oil formulator Joe90Guy who use to be here?

Years ago I asked him about viscosity shear and it's relationship to HTHS drop. He said for whatever viscosity drop you see, you can expect roughly half that as a HTHS drop. Certainly for the first 4 regular commercial products on the list, that is what we are seeing in the % Shear figures.

I just thought it was worth pointing that out, as a general rule of thumb here, for people who do VOAs and UOAs.

Yes, yes I too can see it doesn't always apply to all the experimental mixtures of base oil and various polymer VII at the bottom of the list. But Joe was referring to the regular stuff most people just grab off the shelves at their local store. Looks like he was correct.

I miss Joe90Guy / SonofJoe, he certainly knew his stuff.
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Where'd he go?
 
TiGeo said:
Another victim hahaha
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Hardly.

Another person who was unwilling to comply with our standards, despite being given many “second chances”.

It is possible to speak your mind without being abusive, belittling, threatening, bickering, or using profanity. It is also possible to share what you know without discussing religion, politics, or other inappropriate topics. Most people are able to do that, but not everyone. Something about being behind a keyboard, perhaps.

When you see that someone is “no longer here”, that person is not a “victim” of anything other than their own lack of control.

Their own bad behavior.
 
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Astro14 said:
...despite being given many “second chances”.
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That is correct, he was given many second chances. I remember at least 3 profiles, and I assume multiple warnings on all profiles.

I did have a lot of productive PMs with him, but my focus was on oil chemistry.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
 
Astro14 said:
Hardly.

Another person who was unwilling to comply with our standards, despite being given many “second chances”.

It is possible to speak your mind without being abusive, belittling, threatening, bickering, or using profanity. It is also possible to share what you know without discussing religion, politics, or other inappropriate topics. Most people are able to do that, but not everyone. Something about being behind a keyboard, perhaps.

When you see that someone is “no longer here”, that person is not a “victim” of anything other than their own lack of control.

Their own bad behavior.
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Victim as in victim of their own selves to the points you made..."not being able to control themselves". Not every comment here about banning etc. is "anti-mod' as you guys typically assume.
 
SR5 said:
That is correct, he was given many second chances. I remember at least 3 profiles, and I assume multiple warnings on all profiles.

I did have a lot of productive PMs with him, but my focus was on oil chemistry.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
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Yeah, it’s unfortunate, but no matter how knowledgeable a person might be, if they can’t adhere to standards, then they can’t stay.

I think we are pretty clear on those standards and expectations when folks sign up, and when posts don’t meet standards.

Further, we often act pretty quickly, so, generally, most people don’t see the offending posts, or the bad behavior, and then wonder “what happened”. But believe me, if someone is no longer here, they were given plenty of notice and plenty of opportunity to adjust.

Sorry to go off topic on this.
 
TiGeo said:
Victim as in victim of their own selves to the points you made..."not being able to control themselves". Not every comment here about banning etc. is "anti-mod' as you guys typically assume.
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You used two words. I didn’t assume it was anti-mod, but two words alone leaves a lot of room for ambiguity, and I thought it important to clarify.
 
chris719 said:
Are the CCS numbers accurate in Lake’s table? This implies that LM 10W-60 has a lower dynamic viscosity at -30 C than M1 5W-50 which is still lower than M1 0W-40. Typically we don’t see oils with different winter ratings expressed at the same temperature as we do here. We normally see -35 C for the 0W, -30 C for 5W, and -25 C for the 10W.
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The CCS numbers for the competitor oils were ran at the correct temperature for their rating. The LM 10W-60 was ran at -25C. I should have updated the top row of the table, but used this spreadsheet to easily get the data to Lake, all in one spot.
 
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