LSjr Tests VOA of 20 yr old Valvoline & 40 yr old Mobil 1 Oil. HPL tests Anti-Foam in Gear Oil.

[ATex7239]

Who drives that much!?

Some folks around here have 7 vehicles so no telling.

 

[D60]

Some folks around here have 7 vehicles so no telling.

The wife and I have 4 vehicles registered & insured at all times.

Then I service around a dozen now for my non-profit between its vehicles and core volunteers.

That doesn't include my small handful of "paying customers".

 

[hemioiler]

Assume 20 then. Oil in the grant scheme of vehicle ownership costs are minuscule compared to other things like purchase price, fuel, insurance, etc.

I don’t remember who said it or I would cite them but oil hoarders need to get some perspective.

One guy on here had like several hundred quarts. A little nuts IMHO because by the time you are a little ways into it a better oil comes along (like HPL) and now what do you with the rest of the "junk" on your shelf?

 

[4WD]

Assuming M1 AP average is $30 you saved $15 x 23 = $345. Also assuming 5-6 oil changes a year it would take 3.8 -4.6 years to recognize that $345 savings. Now even if you used it all up in one year that is still only $345. I mean listen you hand me $345 yeah I’ll take it. But a couple hundred dollars is not a financial windfall.

Actually I don’t need your financial advice -
As for the M1 AP - most of it was the 70% PAO that started at $49

 

[4WD]

5-6 oil changes per year!!?

Between my vehicles and what I give away - that’s a bit short …
I also have two 8 quart engines … supply a 7 quart and 6 quart not in signature …

 

[blufeb95]

His VOA shows the oil labelled as SF, which appeared in 1980.

And no, apparently Mobil 1, from the get-go, was PAO/Ester until Tri-Syn happened. That was from TomNJ, who I believe supplied the esters at the time through Hatco, so he'd know. They may not have had the balance right in the first few years though, based on the claims of it causing leaks (possibly due to PAO seal shrink, but that's just speculation on my part).

On the Valvoline, that's Synpower Racing Oil, it could very well have some ester in it as well, like 300V for example. Yes, the water should still condemn it, my point is that we don't know what virgin oxidation is for any of these oils and given the known impact ester content has on this, claims that this is a reliable metric are dubious at best.

Another data point: The gear oil had an oxidation figure of only 6.1, so if this was true oxidation, why was it exempt?

I just came across this thread, but from what I've read the very first formulation of Mobil 1 to hit the market in the earlier part of the 70s was mostly PAO with group I as an additive carrier, but was quickly superseded by the POA+POE version probably due to it poor additive holding and poor elastomeric compatibility.

 

[drowned12]

Maybe my brain got unplugged but it felt like a 30 minute video that didn't really say anything useful.

5 year old oil: is it good to go. YES OR NO?!
etc for 10 year, 15 year.

He went straight to 20+ year old oil where there is no "virgin" oil analysis on it to compare against and concluded "well it's different". OK but most people probably have 5-10 year oil at worst in a sealed bottle kept on a garage shelf. Is it OK to use in a car still? That's the question where the rubber meets the actual road.

On the plus side, 10 year old oil would be from 2014 and there should be virgin oil reports from back then to compare against: "2014 oil in 2014" vs. "2014 oil in 2024" would have been a far more useful video than what he put out.

 

[Bonz]

Where's the picture of an oil that didn't foam? With respect, that amount of liquid oil difference in a test tube for lack of a better term, relates very little to the difference in oil level in a sump that is spread out over much more area. As we know, the oil pickup pulls from the lower end of the sump . Given that no one here has heard of an oil related failure with Rotella, it's a talking point and nothing more for guys that need something to talk about.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Where's the picture of an oil that didn't foam? With respect, that amount of liquid oil difference in a test tube for lack of a better term, relates very little to the difference in oil level in a sump that is spread out over much more area. As we know, the oil pickup pulls from the lower end of the sump . Given that no one here has heard of an oil related failure with Rotella, it's a talking point and nothing more for guys that need something to talk about.

Iirc there is a correlation as they were showing you the foaming test in action.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Where's the picture of an oil that didn't foam? With respect, that amount of liquid oil difference in a test tube for lack of a better term, relates very little to the difference in oil level in a sump that is spread out over much more area. As we know, the oil pickup pulls from the lower end of the sump . Given that no one here has heard of an oil related failure with Rotella, it's a talking point and nothing more for guys that need something to talk about.

Bearing cavitation from excessive oil aeration. Rotella T6 5W-40. If an oil foams that much in a test tube with a little air-induced agitation, imagine what crank windage is doing to it.

HPL HDMO 5W-40. No foam.

 

[Bonz]

Thx RDY4WAR, That picture is specifically bearing cavitation from 5W-40 rotella? What engine is that picture from, meaning bearings used in real life? Good visual evidence, the first one I've seen but it definitely looks like there was a problem in that specific case. I'm not saying there isn't a difference in the amount of air or foaming, but there has not been an engine failure to my knowledge reported on this forum in a motorcycle or from the millions of users or millions of bikes that use Rotella of any variety. BMW recommends it as the oil of choice in 5W-40 for their bikes. It's all relative, and sometimes it's a real difference and sometimes it's a difference that doesn't make a difference. And did I catch that it was 20-year-old oil? Even then, Rotella has been used in all flavors for four decades or more in motorcycles, Rotella came out in 1959.

 

[drtyler]

BMW recommends it as the oil of choice in 5W-40 for their bikes.

BMW seems to recommend their Advantec 5W-40 engine oil.

 

[Bonz]

I'll backtrack on that, Shell makes that oil for bmw, or at least they did when my buddy got his 2016 R1200RT that now has almost 100,000 miles on it with a cavitating, air inducing, foam rich oil. Rotela 5W-40 meets every specification BMW has with respect to JASO MA2. Check out the BMW forums, plenty of guys use it and nary an issue. This is just a case of a good small manufacturer marketing well. There is a difference based on 20-year-old oil. I would caution to say that is not 20-year-old HPL, or is it? With respect to oil foaming, silicon is a typical additive that reduces said foaming. Pretty easy for hpl to make up a batch, market it and put a sticker on it and show in a test against 20 year old oil as anti-foaming.

 

[Bonz]

I'm not knocking hpl oils, I'm knocking the test in its entirety and that 20-year-old oil doesn't raise a red flag to anybody who's seriously taking the test seriously. Real world results more than speak for themselves again for millions and millions and millions of miles and millions of motorcycles.

 

[Pablo]

You want to see an oil foam?’

Jet engine prop boat. Helicopter gear box. Wet conditions.

 

[Bonz]

I've gone back and read through this thread. I see the more recent pictures are recent vintage Rotella and recent vintage hpl. Definitely a difference. But is it a difference that has made a difference? I need to caution as well that my statement about Rotella for millions and millions of miles and millions and millions of bikes is typically the 15w40. However BMW users don't seem to have an issue with 5W-40 rotella.

 

[Kalle.J]

I've gone back and read through this thread. I see the more recent pictures are recent vintage Rotella and recent vintage hpl. Definitely a difference. But is it a difference that has made a difference? I need to caution as well that my statement about Rotella for millions and millions of miles and millions and millions of bikes is typically the 15w40. However BMW users don't seem to have an issue with 5W-40 rotella.

Most bikes especially mentioned BMW bikes have dry sump oiling system. Less susceptible to airation would be my guess.

 

[Bonz]

Current BMW R1200RT has been a wet sump for 10 years, along with the 1000cc inline 4 series as long as they've been around. Current GS series from at least 2014 on have a wet sump as well. Only one that I can tell has a dry sump is the K1600 which is a fraction of what they sell. All of them recommend 5W-40, including the K1600.

 

[Kalle.J]

1250, 1300, 900, 800, 310 has dry sumps.
If you run Rotella in a S1000RR, I have no comment.

Edit: And here is the 1200s dry sump.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333609055194

 

[RDY4WAR]

I'm not knocking hpl oils, I'm knocking the test in its entirety and that 20-year-old oil doesn't raise a red flag to anybody who's seriously taking the test seriously. Real world results more than speak for themselves again for millions and millions and millions of miles and millions of motorcycles.

I'm confused. Do certs matter or not? This is a required test for API CK-4, which Rotella failed.

Where are you getting the 20 year old oil figure from?