LSjr Tests VOA of 20 yr old Valvoline & 40 yr old Mobil 1 Oil. HPL tests Anti-Foam in Gear Oil.

[BMWTurboDzl]

Tagging to remind myself to read all the comments here.

Also, foooaaaaammmm.

View attachment 206470

That'll pump just fine. <Sarc>. Looks like "Golden Milk".

 

[Foxtrot08]

That'll pump just fine. <Sarc>. Looks like "Golden Milk".

It’s supposed to be EP 220 industrial gear oil with micropitting.

It had the consistency of shaving cream. Moved 300,000lbs of it out of a system and replaced it in 96 hours. Including having vac trucks come in and the tanks pressure washed. Decent sized steel mill.

Lesson learned? Anti foaming agents are important. Also, alerting customers additive packages are changing. Compatibility testing. Etc.

 

[Tom NJ]

And no, apparently Mobil 1, from the get-go, was PAO/Ester until Tri-Syn happened. That was from TomNJ, who I believe supplied the esters at the time through Hatco, so he'd know. They may not have had the balance right in the first few years though, based on the claims of it causing leaks (possibly due to PAO seal shrink, but that's just speculation on my part).

The Mobil 1 of the 70s was based on PAO and POE. If I recall correctly the POE content was 10-20% With the SF version in 1980 they switched to a diester (Ditridecyl Adipate). Hatco did not supply the ester to Mobil as they made their own - we determined the ester type and quantity by gas chromatography. Hatco was fanatical about purity and had 16 GCs, running all incoming raw materials and every batch of ester we made, as well as competitive products. Most oil companies I called on had none or one GC. We did supply esters to Red Line.

The oil leaking issue in the 70s was mostly due to the use of a 5W-20 oil in engines designed for 10W-40s. There may have also been some cleaning of sludge clogged leak sites. The ester content was enough to balance the PAO but too low to cause seal issues.

 

[Tom NJ]

Esters, being the product of reactions between alcohols and carboxylic acids, tend to increase the virgin TAN. We see this in Red Line's oils and some of Amsoil's oils as well, usually over 3.0.

Lubricant grade esters typically have a TAN of <0.05 (<0.03 for Hatco). They do not contribute to the TAN of virgin motor oils, but could contribute to used oils if a lot of water and heat is present. This is rare, and the acids released when is does occur are much milder than the acids from the breakdown of mineral oils.

 

[Invisible]

Btw...

View attachment 206497

What is the reason for Rotella T6 foaming like that? Is it the base oil, or anti-foaming chemistry?

The Mobil 1 of the 70s was based on PAO and POE. If I recall correctly the POE content was 10-20% With the SF version in 1980 they switched to a diester (Ditridecyl Adipate). Hatco did not supply the ester to Mobil as they made their own - we determined the ester type and quantity by gas chromatography. Hatco was fanatical about purity and had 16 GCs, running all incoming raw materials and every batch of ester we made, as well as competitive products. Most oil companies I called on had none or one GC. We did supply esters to Red Line.

That is awesome insight! Who supplies Red Line with esters now? Can you please provide some examples of esters than can break down carbon deposits and dissolve them? Thank you.

 

[drtyler]

What is the reason for Rotella T6 foaming like that? Is it the base oil, or anti-foaming chemistry?

Mediocre product

 

[Invisible]

Mediocre product

Twenty years back, I had a buddy who used Delvac 1300 in his Dodge pickup, pushing it to 20K-30K miles between oil changes. His logic was if big rigs can go 15K miles on it, his smaller truck should manage double that easily. I couldn't help but facepalm, thinking about the huge difference between a big truck's 10-gallon-plus oil capacity and hefty filters compared to a small truck's 7-quart capacity and much smaller filter. I don't get why some folks think heavy-duty diesel oil is a one-size-fits-all solution. It's really meant for low RPM diesel engines that primarily fight against soot buildup, and many of these engines are equipped with less-than-ideal emission systems. That's the main focus of HD diesel oils, at least from what I've gathered. My apologies if I've got any of this wrong.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Lubricant grade esters typically have a TAN of <0.05 (<0.03 for Hatco). They do not contribute to the TAN of virgin motor oils, but could contribute to used oils if a lot of water and heat is present. This is rare, and the acids released when is does occur are much milder than the acids from the breakdown of mineral oils.

I stand corrected. Thank you.

 

[RDY4WAR]

What is the reason for Rotella T6 foaming like that? Is it the base oil, or anti-foaming chemistry?

Anti-foam chemistry is lacking though some base oils can be more prone than others. Additive clash can also do it though that's less likely the case there. As drtyler said, mediocre product.

 

[Invisible]

Anti-foam chemistry is lacking though some base oils can be more prone than others. Additive clash can also do it though that's less likely the case there. As drtyler said, mediocre product.

Could R&D cost or the cost of better materials (whatever those may be) be the major factor why it's such a mediocre product, or is it a case of corporate "the product sells, so it must be good enough"?

 

[RDY4WAR]

Could R&D cost or the cost of better materials (whatever those may be) be the major factor why it's such a mediocre product, or is it a case of corporate "the product sells, so it must be good enough"?

Both. Shell spends $50-60 million a year marketing Rotella. That money comes from somewhere.

 

[Foxtrot08]

Anti-foam chemistry is lacking though some base oils can be more prone than others. Additive clash can also do it though that's less likely the case there. As drtyler said, mediocre product.

Friends don’t let friends use Rotella.

(I catch poop for this all over the place. Always have. Always will. My money is where my mouth is. We bought 7 shell distributors in 10 years and we are not shell branded.)

 

[Foxtrot08]

Could R&D cost or the cost of better materials (whatever those may be) be the major factor why it's such a mediocre product, or is it a case of corporate "the product sells, so it must be good enough"?

Shell has an ego to them.

They rather spend the money on marketing Rotella, than make Rotella a good product. There was a thread that I got bashed pretty hard in on the HDEO side of the forum. It spelled out why I don’t like Rotella.

 

[Tom NJ]

What is the reason for Rotella T6 foaming like that? Is it the base oil, or anti-foaming chemistry?

I can't speak to a specific product, but foam can be caused by many trace materials. A common anti-foam additive is silicone which, while not soluble, can be dispersed as micro droplets that change the surface tension of the oil and prevent foaming. Over time these micro droplets can plate out on the container surface and thereby lose their ability to control foam.

 

[OVERKILL]

The Mobil 1 of the 70s was based on PAO and POE. If I recall correctly the POE content was 10-20% With the SF version in 1980 they switched to a diester (Ditridecyl Adipate). Hatco did not supply the ester to Mobil as they made their own - we determined the ester type and quantity by gas chromatography. Hatco was fanatical about purity and had 16 GCs, running all incoming raw materials and every batch of ester we made, as well as competitive products. Most oil companies I called on had none or one GC. We did supply esters to Red Line.

The oil leaking issue in the 70s was mostly due to the use of a 5W-20 oil in engines designed for 10W-40s. There may have also been some cleaning of sludge clogged leak sites. The ester content was enough to balance the PAO but too low to cause seal issues.

Thank you!

 

[Sam_Julier]

I was planning to use my stash of T6 0W40 and 5W40 on our 1992 MB 300D 2.5 turbo. We purchased it last October.

Is the foaming such an issue that I should ditch it?

 

[4WD]

If that foaming is widespread - not a good thing for commercial fishermen who swear by Rotella - I used to catch heat here for sticking with NMMA oils - and anti foaming was one reason …
Even with the same standards - some go with a minimum …

 

[malibuguy79]

Seeing the HPL lab really makes me want to buy more

 

[4WD]

Purdy colors

Purdy purple faded here …

 

[loneryder]

There is a VOA of old Mobil1 that i posted a while back. I believe it was from early 90s. It was titled something like “can you tell what type of oil this is”? I shook it up.
I didn’t know that oil volume increased when hot. Learn something new everyday.