Low Speed TC/Transmission Shudder 2012 Civic Org Fluid at 180K.

09 GLS

Thread starter
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
720
Location
Upstate, NY
And just like that two more drain and fills shudder has been fixed and it shifts beautifully with quick engagements, fast gear changes, and by the 3rd drain the fluid actually had a little red color to it. They also sent me a message after I gave the car back and told me it’s never felt or shifted this good. So it was a success even from a non car person point of view haha. I advised them that we must do it now every 20-30k miles BEFORE the shudder and they agreed they “let it go for far too long”

So recap so you don’t have to read the whole thread: torque converter shutter in 1-3 gears under light throttle. Using D3 makes problem go away, drain and fill times 3 with dw-1 fluid = problem fixed. Drain about 2.6 qts each time repeat 3 times. Replace crush washer on 3rd and final tq down of drain bolt.
Thanks again everyone!
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2017
Messages
428
Location
midpac
So i called the local jiffy lube, and they use synthetic Versa trans LV ATF...(https://phillips66lubricants.com/product/versatrans-lv-atf-transmission-fluid/) BUT they told me they will not touch it because of the TC shudder. Maybe i should of not told them that part... But they extract from the fill port, then add the fluid, and said its "kinda" like a flush.
Next i'll call the dealer next to see what they have to say.
How much was the jiffy service, cheaper than the dealer?
 
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
25,167
Location
CA
Doing the 3x3 now. It’s definitely torque converter shudder , as if you put it in d3 it does not do it. I drove it and experimented with different throttle inputs and using d3 and it will not shudder if it’s in d3 no matter how little the throttle input. Also if it’s shuddering and you click it in to d3 it goes away instantly, or if you jab the throttle quickly it goes away. It also does it in first - third like clock work in normal drive. No shudder in d3 on same road and same inputs. The fluid looks black and there is a ton of sludge on the magnetic drain bolt. It’s definitely looking original. And for your guys here are some pics
That has been serviced before. Usually the first fluid change has globs of goo on the plug.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
6,259
Location
Ohio
That has been serviced before. Usually the first fluid change has globs of goo on the plug.
Yeah, I've seen more even on cars that have the fluid swapped on a routine basis.

first drain and fill fixed the problem instantly
I was going to tell you that a single drain and refill would take care of it but I wasn't sure if I was confident enough given it had 170k miles. No harm in doing add'l ones either... Like @The Critic said though, that fluid has probably been changed before, probably a previous owner (?? you don't say if they're the original owner).
 

09 GLS

Thread starter
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
720
Location
Upstate, NY
That has been serviced before. Usually the first fluid change has globs of goo on the plug.
You might be right. They only owned car for 7 years and 150k miles. So that leaves 2.5 years and 30k miles unaccounted for. They personally never did the transmission service but are a extremely gentle driver with most shifts occurring at 2400 or below. Most likely the dealer did it before sale around 30k. It was still long over due, and I think the computer hides bad fluid by adjusting shift points and slip ect so most people are not even aware until the fluid breaks down past a point and the tc starts shuddering because of bad fluid. Even with the old fluid shifting felt acceptable minus the tc shudder. But with the new fluid i noticed it shifted even more “direct” with zero shudder.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
6,259
Location
Ohio
Honda dealers like to promote 30k drain-and-fill so it depends on the previous owner and how much they "trust" their dealer. It's very unlikely a dealer did a drain-and-fill as part of a "used car service" before they put it on their lot though. Even less likely if they bought it at a non-Honda dealer.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
268
Location
Minnesota
Difficult decision to work on someone else's car, they are lucky to have you help out. I'd do that again within a year and probably before December as you've descibed the improvement of the fluid color, then every ~20k. Not 100% sure of this, but if you do the swap concurrently, running the motor and shifting the gears for about 1 minute 45 seconds, that should pump the new fluid in and leave mostly old fluid in the drain pan, though as we know it's not a pan, I just don't know what to call it.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
6,259
Location
Ohio
but if you do the swap concurrently, running the motor and shifting the gears for about 1 minute 45 seconds, that should pump the new fluid in and leave mostly old fluid
The amount of new fluid vs old fluid that is calculated is only theoretical (based on math), not based on physically measuring the fluid. If you measured or analyzed the fluid, I don't believe it will be as "new" as the formulas say. In reality though, it absolutely "helps".
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2017
Messages
7
Location
Great Lakes
Okay, so DW-1 fluid it is, from the dealer! Im going to take this job on, and do a 3X3 method for them for 9QTS total then i know most of the fluid is changed, and its done to spec and the correct way.. I informed them already honda recommends 30-60K transmission fluid changes, and they are way over, so if something get worse, we tried, but changing the fluid via drain and fill 3 times, when done correctly should not blow the transmission up, unless its already on its way out..
How long did you run it between drain and fills? Why not just pull a cooler line and refill it as the trans is pumping it out?
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
6,259
Location
Ohio
I think that those tyranny’s have an external filter that can & should be changed. YouTube would be helpful for this.
If the ATF is maintained and changed on a decent schedule, based on many instances of people that changed them said they wasted their time and (small amount of) money. If the fluid history is unknown, it may be worth changing but if you keep up the replacement of fluid, don't bother changing it again.
 
Top