Loud Nissan engines?

[ThirdeYe]

Originally Posted By: Cyprs
I have owned Datsun/Nissan since 1977, they all sound loud at start up, my 1980 1957 engine and 1987 24zi engine had high choke settings of about 1800 rpm in -40C, they roared like plane engines at start up and loud, huge tick on upper end, soon as fast idle done drive off, goes 100's Ks like this in extreme cold climate here.

I owned a 2001 KA24, a 2003 QR25DE and 2005 QR25DE this decade so far, they sound like diesels at startup idle, after a while one gets used to that as charactoristic, no problems to date.

Nissan also uses steel timing chains that last 320K kms, these chains attribute to some rattle cold too. I use a 0-30 XD3 HDEO, CI-4/SL, group 4 POA, -45 pour point all year round, this greatly quiets down the engine, I also believe it lubes that chain quick and effectively to quiet it down, Nissan engines love a thicker oil and my Nissans love XD3.

To note, in driving Nissan for 30+ years now in extreme -40 climate here I have always marveled at how Nissan winterizes vehicles for cold climates, they start with only 2 hours block heater in extreme cold and long before -45 C syn oils arrived too, they idle fast rpm and warm quick especially with all aluminum blocks, the older cast with aluminum head jobs take longer but give sufficient fast idle.

Cyprs



That's odd, I had a KA24DE in my old Altima and I never had any odd noises on startup. It was more quiet than my Integra is when I start it up.

 

[BuickGN]

The GF's Murano also does the start and shoot up to 2,500rpm thing even when it's not cold. No noises whatsoever, in fact I've always wondered how the poor thing can not make noise with this startup strategy. It has close to 40,000 miles and has had Amsoil ACD since it's first oil change.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: mechanicx

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. From what I'm am told, the Nissan engines do not use hydraulic lash adjuster, but all the valve clearance has to be set with shims. I don't know if that has something to do with it?


No I don't think that's it. Of all the Japanese manufactures Nissan uses hydraulic lifters the most (Mazda does as well) and was one of the first to go to hydraulic lifters. Most all other Japanese cars use mechanical followers. However its possible that there more cold start noise because of the hydraulic lifters and not because they don't have them.


Quote:
Also, as someone noted, all of the filters I've seen are sideways mounted. Also, the Nissan filters (made in china) looks like a denso knock off or something. I don't know who makes them, or their actual quality, but they do not look that great. The filter material (looking in the filter, not cutting it) just looks like some yellow paper or something. I have not done a search to see if anyone has cut them open or not. But they have a black adbv so I'm assuming that it is not silicone.


I think you are wrong here. I've watched one of the techs with his list of shims for valve clearance on a 2.5, and a Versa (which I think is a 1.6 or 1.8?) They are not hydraulic at all, and I was told that the 3.5's are the same way.


I'm not real familar with late model Nissans. They did switch from a mechanical lash adjuster to hydraulic on some engines, but looks like they are back to using mechanical on most of them like you said. The thing is though mechanical valve noise is pretty obvious what it is and usually not real loud. It sounds like people are hearing maybe timing chain noise due to the tensioner or other noises from the bottom end, like piston or connectiong rod noises.

 

[Johnny248]

I was told that that rev up is a symptom of a dirty throttle body, and that it should be cleaned and re-learned with the Nissan consult (their odbii unit)

 

[Petrou]

Mine is carborated but it will rev to about 2500 once the oil gets moving, clatters and what not, i usually bring it down to 2000 rpm and let it run there. I did see in our online shop manual calls for 10-30 10-40 or 10-50 in all climates, so i am gonna be trying a little thicker oil, i have used rotella 15-40 before, i think ill try a 10-40 any ideas? castrol valvoline, napa brand it dont really matter, no supertech or anything like that

 

[mxhdroom]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
My 2008 Altima 2.5 SL (4 cyl, 17,000 miles) is definitely noisier during warm-up in cold weather - not at all in warm weather. It's not a distinct valve tap or clatter, just overall noisier. No change switching from factory fill to Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30+.

Tom NJ


The QR25DE in my SpecV is very noisy during startup and cold ambient temperatures. Changing to a 5w30 synthetic helped a bunch, but it still causes me a bit of concern until the engine warms up. If I own it past the warranty expiry, I'll change to GC or Petro-Canada 0W-30.

Gary

 

[Powerglide]

I have a 1976 Datsun (Nissan) 280Z. Stock 2.8 liter OHC FI straight six... Bottom end has 160K miles on it and never been apart. Timing chain, tensioner and guides recently replaced. Compression is 160 psi and even accross all 6 holes. Upon cold start up, in warm S. Florida weather---the motor will rattle for 3 or 4 seconds and quiet down immediately. The noise is the timing chain and the valve train oiling up upon start up. It takes a moment or two for the sideways filter to fill with oil build pressure and circulate through the top end of the motor. The valve train is solid (not hydraulic).

The start up noise is endemic to Nissan motors and is nothing to worry about. Especially if it dissappears in a short period of time. And is absent when the motor is idling while warm. Nissan motors seem to like heavier weight oil too.

 

[cafasco]

My '07 2.5S Altima is sometimes really noisy at start up (1st few seconds), particularly when it's colder. It has 50K and regular 7.5K synthetic oil & filter changes. Currently running Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 & Pureone filter. Glad to hear it's nothing to worry about!

 

[Silk]

I've never noticed any extra noise in Nissan engines compared to others here in New Zealand - but 90% of them would be running on 15w40.The early SR18/20 engines are prone to blocking the oil distribution pipes that squirt onto the cam lobes,then they get noisy and run rough.

 

[OilGuy2]

Have had experience with five Nissans: 1986 Pathfinder 4WD 3.3L, 2001 Pathfinder 4WD/AWD 3.5L, 2001 Maxima 3.0L, 2002 Sentra SER 2.5L and 2008 Sentra SER 2.5L.

All of the above owned by immediate family members and all are still on the road with no engine/transmission/driveline mechanical problems to date. Not even so much as a CV joint.

The engine "roar", revving to about 1800-2000 rpm that begins 1 second after initial "ignition" is characteristic. They settle down immediately and are quiet after the initial surge.
Oil pressure comes up pretty quick (we have a couple with meters) and they can be driven within a minute unless the temperatures are below 20F.

I agree with Powerglide: our personal experience with the brand is that they do like a little higher viscosity oil when they get some mileage on them. 5w30 is the standard, but 5W-40 works better (quieter) from 50,000 miles on and 10W-40 after 100,000. None are past 150,000 miles and Mobil 1 10W-40 is very quiet running.

A few gripes: 1) the oil filters are too small. Not so bad on the 2.5L but the same size on the 3.5L is underkill. The Mobil 1 15,000 or 1 year OCI with "Extended Performance" is pushing it with Nissan's small filter sizes. It would be OK for highway miles but for in-town driving, 10,000 is more like it.

2) We have had some problems with engines sludging up when changed with dealer's brand of 5w30 conventional. Winter temperatures in New England combined with cheap Dino that still has paraffin plus water condensation makes for sludge. Believe sludge buildup was responsible for solenoid failure of variable camshaft advancing system (under valve covers)in the 3.5L Pathy: the only mechanical warranty claim we've had. Taking over all oil changes and switching to synthetics after 2 X 5,000 mile OCI w/filter and Shell Rotella T 5W-40 HDEO (and some MMO) has eliminated sludge.

Pathfinders have a very solid undercarriage (5000lb tow), good ground clearance, strong components and are worth keeping a long time. Aftermarket has plenty of quality parts at reasonable costs available. Pathy's weigh 4,500lbs and have PP gas mileage.

The 2001 Maxima is still a nice car at 120,000 miles. It is black with a charcoal interior, moon roof, 17" alloys, etc.

Sentra SER are compacts on steroids. They are a lot of fun to drive and quite fast: the 2008 came with 225X45X17 Z-rated tires. They get the same smooth, torquey DOHC 2.5L that is put into the Altima Family Sedan. SER's have no stability control and no need of it, just like all well designed cars.

The Datsun (Nissan) 280Z was quite a car and Datsun established itself very early as the "performance" Japanese Manufacturer. Their current CEO has returned the brand back to its performance roots and now Nissan is a serious competitor to overly conservative Toyota and way too green Honda. Their exciting new car designs have become market leaders just as the Z's and the Pathfinders were years ago.

 

[Cyprs]

On the Cummins I use 0-40 XD3 syn, same oil as 0-30 mentioned above. Before I got my heat pads, in -45F my Cummins started easy with this oil (-54F) pour point) with ten hour of block heater, no hesitation on starting engine, oil pressure comes up suprisingly fast.

Now I have a wolverine heat pad on both the transmission and oil pans, now with 5 hours of block heater and heat pads on sumps my engine starts like mid summer in -45F, the oil is warm and top of block is toasty. The engine warms from heat of oil due to heat pad along with block heater, the two work perfect together, the oil flows quick with instant oil pressure at startup, I believe it is a better warmer start than mid summer morning after a cool night without being plugged in.

250 watts on each heat pad + probably about 750 watts on block heater for about 1300 watts. thing is the heatpads greatly reduce my electrical bill because without the heat pads I would have to run block heater long term, the heat pad on oil sump warms oil and helps warm engine in only 5 hours pm a long term exposed engine at -45F, the oil does NOT burn or jell as some extreme heat pads will. These heat pads do not have to be plugged in immediately at engine shut down.

I also run a 25 year proven industrial single molecule high pressure metal treatment which treats the motor with protection before oil gets to it.

With the heat pads I dont need the 0-40 syn oil, 15-40 conv is no problem, but there may be times I dont have access to electricity so I run syn XD3 Esso/Exxon oil for an easy start anytime/anywhere in extreme cold weather. I have these heat pads on all my engines and transmissions.

www.padheaters.com for wolverines, also I am interested in the KATS version heat pads sold in States at Northner Tool, the kats are bit bigger and less wattage to do same job as wolverines. www.northerntool.com, Wolverine heat pads are around $100.00 each, the Kats heat pads are about 22.00 American.

Cyprs

 

[Cyprs]

The above post was to answer your question on Cummins winter start up Johny 248. Sorry I did hit the reply button on your post.

Thirde Ye, yes you are right, I mistakenly lumped in the KA24DE with the other two QR25DEs, the KA24DE did run more like Nissan engines of old. I believe Nissan made a huge mistake not shelving the QR25DE in 2002/2003 with all the nightmare problems of loose intake screws not locktighted and falling in engine, cat re-map nightmares, poor designed bottom end bearing etc. There are still some issues, the QR25DE is not as robust an engine of past Nissan 4 bangers.

The KA24DE in our 01 Altima was a better bullet proof engine in my opinion, the only thing I did not like was the small 3 quart oil sump, I prefer to have 4 quarts oil in my engines.

I also did not like the fact that in 01 they put 3 times more sensors to try to make the most elite emmission free engine, we got sick of driving to dealership to get sensors replaced on warrantee, we got rid of it due to this, we had no intention of buying 3 sensors per year on our pocket book for life time of ownership off warrantee.

Lastly this 5 speed Altima version would race up to 2000 rpm at stop sign and not kick down when one clutched, that was a nighmare on our extreme slippery conditions, the tires would sit and spin at times just on release of clutch, had to brake to slow down wheels to get a proper grab, dangerous with my infant child in car at time or any time. I would have kept and loved that engine if not for these three only draw backs.

My fathers 2001 Sentra has 2.7 litre oil sump and he spent $3500.00 on sensors and emmision replacements recently because the car would not perform. The emmision specialist told him that 2001 was a terrible year in Nissan due to over use of sensors and the cats were the old dinosaur hot wire system that clogs up, that cost Dad big time on the bill too. 2001 was not a great year for Nissan in our experience.

I think Nissan cleaned some of those issued up since.

Cyprs

 

[gizzsdad]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
I was told that that rev up is a symptom of a dirty throttle body, and that it should be cleaned and re-learned with the Nissan consult (their odbii unit)


Nope - as OilGuy2 said above - it is part of the engine management system. My last three Nissans were all bought new and all exhibited this characteristic.

 

[addyguy]

BIL has a 1985 p/u with the 2.4.

When he got it, it had a combo of 10w30 and 15w40 oils in it, and it hadn't been changed in years. Valvetrain, remarkably, looked clean through the fill hole (no noticeable sludge build-up). It started and cranked to life a bit slowly, but fine.

He changed the oil, and put Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 in it. Immediately, when cranking it to life, you noticed how much faster it cranked and fired. Like people have said here, it does 'rattle' for the first 10-15 secs., but then it settles right down and idles relatively quietly (for a 24 year-old truck, LOL).

 

[aquariuscsm]

I`ve had 3 Nissans (280Z,300ZX Z31 turbo,and my present 300ZX Z32 n/a),and none of them have ever made the slightest hint of startup noise. If the Nissan in question (the one using GTX 5W30)is having startup noise,I`d blame the oil. My friend`s 98 Altima was always silent till she started getting oil changes at the stealership (heaven only knows why?????????) and they use 5W30 GTX. Ever since,it always sounds like it has no oil in it at startup. Previous oil since brand new was Pennzoil 10w30 conventional.

 

[electroken1]

My wife's '98 Altima sounds like it's dry for a second or two on startup any time it sits more than a day. It has done it for years and sounds like it has a marginally loose bearing or two. The car sounds the same whether its running Amsoil 5W30, 10W30, Rotella 5W40, or Pennzoil Platinum 5w30. It has seen Amsoil, Mobil 1, Supertech, and Pure One filters with no change. I stopped worrying about it long ago. The valve train still looks like the day it was built.

It's by far the most trouble-free car we've had.

 

[saberz]

To me the Xterra sounds "normal". Reminds me of the Wrangler, cranking the engine gives a nice roar of the motor and it settles down after a minute or two. Well maintained vehicle, but its a 6 banger, not the 4.

 

[G35_TX]

I have learned to use a good oil and the car won't do it. They have timing chain slap a lot on the VQs. Mobil 1 really caused it to do it, but since I used PP on all my VQs and Amsoil, I never had the issue again.

 

[tig1]

How does oil stop timing chain slap?

 

[JohnBrowning]

Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 and Mobil 1 0W40 either should quite them right down.