Losing faith in FP60

[LC]

I have had wonderful success using E-85 and FP60
My 99 Ranger runs great on this fuel. In my case the addition of FP60 has given me a gain of 2 mpg
over E-85 without FP60.
My engine is clean and uses no oil. E-85 has been used in this truck 75%of it's 80,000 plus miles.
As of this past week I have not run E-85 the price shot up from $2.01 to $2.59
With Reg. Unleaded I average 4 mpg more than with E-85. So if I can't break even or save money using E-85 I don't use it. My local supplier tells me the price went up because of the huge demand for ethanol of late.(not E-85) with more stations blending it at 10%.
This is a big deal in the making. Why push the use of E-85 if it is going to cost you more? Some states have addressed this issue by lowering the state tax on E-85. My state has not. So I write a lot of letters to my states Rep. and Senators. I love the idea that we build plants and create jobs for people here in the U.S. But if they want the masses to use this fuel than it has to be the cheaper alternative. (if it's cheaper they (consumer) will buy.)
Sorry I'll stop now I don't want to ruin this thread.

 

[Intelman34]

quote:

---

Originally posted by lcd:
Intelman....first off we are sorry to hear of your frustrations. We answer ALL emails so it is hard to believe you asked us questions and they were not answered.

Please send me the email you sent [email protected] and I'll answer it.

Also your views are in the minority for sure for diesel ownwers using FP60. Most of our users are diesel owners and feel FP60 is head and sholders above any other additive out there.

Large fleets that have been using FP60 would beg to differ with your comments and they have been using for many years...some over 20 years.

---

I'm not trying to put down the product or the company. It is true. I sent two emails, 1 week apart and they were not answered. I have had emailed answered in a timely manner in the past so I found it odd as well. Again, I am in no way trying to bash, just looking for some info and a good discussion. I have used over 5 gallons of FP60 and now just finally looking for some info.

Is it okay to mix FP60 with another additive such as Power Service so I can increase cetane as well?

This is all exactly the kind of info I am looking for.

Thanks again.

 

[Ken2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry:
...What does not get dried is SAFELY carried into the combust process and is used for improved performance....
Terry

---

There have been both mechanical and chemical ways to emulsify water into diesel fuel. The advantage is that the very small droplets of water surrounded by fuel flash into steam and improve the atomization of the fuel for a better burn.


Ken

 

[Terry]

Intelman yes you may mix FP with any cetane boost I am aware of. Find the cheapest cetane boost you can procure. I must warn you that PS if used in too high of dosage in engines will attack the bearing surface.

Ideally if you could purchase diesel already with cetane levels above 44 you should need NO other add than FP60 or FP3000.

Agreed Ken2.

I am no fuels expert but have been actively involved in data interpretation with the formulating chemists and LCD reps on the FP3000 program.

Guys I must tell you this is truely a grass roots company that wants nothing but getting reasonably priced and cutting edge technology to you the customer. There is a lag between R&D, verification, and marketing. Thanks for being patient. You will be happy if you stick with the products. I am and many of my oil analysis customers agree. LC is one of them I think. I never can tell who is who with these darn handles everyone uses.

 

[Intelman34]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry:
Intelman yes you may mix FP with any cetane boost I am aware of. Find the cheapest cetane boost you can procure. I must warn you that PS if used in too high of dosage in engines will attack the bearing surface.

Ideally if you could purchase diesel already with cetane levels above 44 you should need NO other add than FP60 or FP3000.

Agreed Ken2.

I am no fuels expert but have been actively involved in data interpretation with the formulating chemists and LCD reps on the FP3000 program.

Guys I must tell you this is truely a grass roots company that wants nothing but getting reasonably priced and cutting edge technology to you the customer. There is a lag between R&D, verification, and marketing. Thanks for being patient. You will be happy if you stick with the products. I am and many of my oil analysis customers agree. LC is one of them I think. I never can tell who is who with these darn handles everyone uses.

---

I use BP Premier/Premium Diesel for EVERY fillup. I guess I don't need to worry about cetane then.

 

[Terry]

mshu7, Both products will improve flame propogation in ethanol mixes and should improve the energy value of the ethanol fuel. I have customers that run FP60 and E85 with wonderful results.

I like E85 and ethanol as far as clean burning and effect on UOA results.

If North America had the suger cane residue like Brasil uses for cheap source of ethanol raw materials it would make even more cost sense for alternative fuels.

 

[Terry]

Intel, what setup are you running ? What is the cetane rating on the BP premium diesel ?

Have I ever seen this unit in analysis ?

Terry

 

[Intelman34]

You have never seen a sample from it. I have always thought about it with my vehicles, just never got around to it.

2005 Silverado Duramax Diesel (LLY 310hp/605tq) with 6500 miles on it. Truck has had a Quadzilla Stealth2 Programmer rated at 135hp/300tq (at the wheels numbers) since 2500 miles. No huge amounts of power just yet, but those will come soon enough. I run Chevron Delo 400 in the truck with a Purolator PremiumPlus oil filter.

Minimum cetane for BP premium diesel is 50. The truck has NEVER seen "regular" diesel.

Again, I truly do appreciate all of the help and info. Thanks so much!

 

[BrianWC]

We do! We just don't use it! La and Tx grow a lot of sugarcane and used to grow more before cheap central american stuff took over the market.

I know, off topic....

 

[Terry]

BrianWC, I agree but the reality is the sugarcane industry is small when compared to Brasil, even sugar beets are gone as a money making commodity.

Brasil can cheaply process their residuals very successfully, "alcool" is the name of the fuel and its cheap in country.

 

[JHZR2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry:
Gelling with FP60, I don't buy that. Its been in use for 60 years in cold weather climates with no gelling issues, as long as the fuel was winterized or blended for the cold climate. There is no wax in FP60 to gel. If your girl friends Dad had untreated #2 in Wisconsin then sure it will gel, thats not FP60's fault.

FP60 is not a cetane booster, it is a cleaner and lubricant that does improve combustion energy.

---

OK, I have to think

I agree with Terry. More than likely the gelled fuel has more to do with its source than with the FP... Ive had no indications that FP can in any way cause gelling to occur, and cold weather tests that Iverun on standard #2 fuel seem to indicate same. Granted it does not get that cold in NJ, but I have extensive real use of FP in diesel, and have not noted any evidence of gelling in use either...

All the same, I have to think

on the improive combustion energy bit as well. In all of my logging, I have noted no statistically significant MPG increase from using FP. There have been numerous indications of its lubricity enhancements, and I believe the initial studies about cleaning ability, but combustion energy is a term that is too vague. There is no way that the energy content of the fuel can be increased by FP in any real way, given the dosing ratios. It is just not thermodynamically feasible. It CAN improve combustion efficiency through a number of different mechanisms, and thus cause a net increase in total realized power, but it would still be a function of the heating value of the fuel only, as the amount of FP cant instill but a very tiny addition... The realized improvement would be something along the lines of 22.02 vs 22.0% efficiency (LHV to power out basis) of the system.

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken2:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry:
...What does not get dried is SAFELY carried into the combust process and is used for improved performance....
Terry

---

There have been both mechanical and chemical ways to emulsify water into diesel fuel. The advantage is that the very small droplets of water surrounded by fuel flash into steam and improve the atomization of the fuel for a better burn.


Ken

---

I'd really like to learn more about such a mechanism... At what point does the quenching effect of the phase change of the water balance or even outweigh the improved atomization???

My models of an 34.4 API gravity fuel with various (high) contents of steam and air make for good products and net energy release (but this is a system with no delta W)... However, add that phase change into it in even a very minute quantity, and the results are really poor. Granted, the amount of water that could be emulsified in fuel and still have usable fuel is REALLY low... but such atomization improvement could be very useful to me for some applications.

JMH

 

[kgb007stb]

Those of you skeptical about LC go to this thread

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=004546

and see for yourself

 

[lewk]

what is UCL?

[ April 02, 2006, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Upper cylinder lubricant

 

[Intelman34]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry:
Intelman yes you may mix FP with any cetane boost I am aware of. Find the cheapest cetane boost you can procure. I must warn you that PS if used in too high of dosage in engines will attack the bearing surface.

---

What is "too high of a dosage" for PS? This is the first i've heard of it causing harm.

 

[427Z06]

Terry, would you "pimp my ride"?

 

[Strjock81]

quote:

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Strjock81: What kind of diesel are you going to be using FP60 in? I'd like to know what you think of it. [/QB]

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I will be using it in a 2004.5 Common Rail Dodge Cummins, TDI Jetta, Diesel Tractors, Diesel Generators, etc. Everything will get a taste and we will see how each responds. I may even try it in my gasser vehicles and equipment

 

[PSNut]

Terry,
Thank You for all the awesome info on additives
for fuel. I've been using both LC20 and FP60 and have had no issues.
Jim

 

[Dave Hess]

FP works, you just have to have the correct (ounce/per gallon) in your tank.