Looking for some input on a small Inverter - generator

[K.Aoi]

You should look at the manual before buying an inverter for the max draw under “eco” mode, which is when the inverter is actually working. When you exceed that they revert to a standard generator running at 3000rpm negating any fuel savings. My cheap WEN is at 60% of its 3500W constant rating.

I measured all the max surge on things I would run with a decent clamp meter and a cord with individual conductors. I was actually surprised by the surge on some things. I have a 6500BTU A/C that surged to almost 18A one time. I guess it’s for a very short time because it doesn’t flip the breaker.

This is incorrect. In any mode, they are capable of their full rated wattage. At maximum output, the engine is turning the same RPMs regardless of eco mode or not (it's actually 5000RPM or so for almost all of these smaller units at maximum load). The only difference is that it lowers the engine speed under no/low load, the inverter itself does not have its output limited. The inverter is always "working". There is no time when these function like a standard brushed or brushless generator with the output connected directly to the windings on the generator head.

You are correct however in that the surge under startup of a large motor could put some stress on it as unlike a regular generator you can't rely on the rotational momentum of the rotor to overcome startup surges, but the inverters contain a capacitor that can help bridge the slight gap to the engine speed increasing.

 

[spasm3]

Yes, definitely consumed faster and why an inverter would be a must
Good news is if it was an extended outage, I could always then switch over to gasoline, but I would like to avoid that if it is ever needed because I don’t want the hassle of draining gasoline for something that might get used once or twice a decade

How much do you want to spend?

Champion has a 2500 watt portable for just under $600 that is dual fuel. Its small. They claim 25 hour run time on a 20 gallon propane tank.

If you do go that route, blue rhino tanks are not full, if you get a new tank, take it to tractor supply and top it up.

I do hear that generators are not easy to start on propane.

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Pow.../B0CRLWJSSX/ref=sr_1_5?crid=38CV3VQ9UJM2G&dib

 

[SC Maintenance]

This is incorrect. In any mode, they are capable of their full rated wattage. At maximum output, the engine is turning the same RPMs regardless of eco mode or not (it's actually 5000RPM or so for almost all of these smaller units at maximum load). The only difference is that it lowers the engine speed under no/low load, the inverter itself does not have its output limited. The inverter is always "working". There is no time when these function like a standard brushed or brushless generator with the output connected directly to the windings on the generator head.

You are correct however in that the surge under startup of a large motor could put some stress on it as unlike a regular generator you can't rely on the rotational momentum of the rotor to overcome startup surges, but the inverters contain a capacitor that can help bridge the slight gap to the engine speed increasing.

It was a typo - should be 3600rpm. A 2 pole generator at 3600 is 60Hz AC power - well alternator I guess right? So while it might still be running through the inverters coils there is little or no frequency to invert. Maybe cleans it up?

The Honda 212 and clones are typically governed at 3800 rpm and the servo controls to 3600 on full run or after about half load. Or at least that’s what the wiring diagram infers There not built for 5000 rpm constant I don’t think. Maybe others are?

If I am in “eco” and I add over half rated load it goes immediately to full rpm. I had assumed this is to not overheat the inverter?

 

[K.Aoi]

It was a typo - should be 3600rpm. A 2 pole generator at 3600 is 60Hz AC power - well alternator I guess right? So while it might still be running through the inverters coils there is little or no frequency to invert. Maybe cleans it up?

The Honda 212 and clones are typically governed at 3800 rpm and the servo controls to 3600 on full run or after about half load. Or at least that’s what the wiring diagram infers There not built for 5000 rpm constant I don’t think. Maybe others are?

If I am in “eco” and I add over half rated load it goes immediately to full rpm. I had assumed this is to not overheat the inverter?

These operate like a PC switch mode power supply. They don't invert directly to 60hz. They take the AC input, rectify it, then using FETs convert it to several hundred khz AC, then rectify and convert that back to 60hz, and output voltage is maintained with PWM. I suppose it's possible the bigger ones are governed to 3600-3800. The smaller 80cc and similar sizes like on the ones we've been talking about in this thread (2000w sized ones) will sit at 5000RPM. My old predator 1100/1400 and my current bilt hard 2000/2500 run at 5200rpm at full load.

 

[Cruisin'n5thgear]

I have two non-inverter generators, 18 hp and 5 hp, and I 100% agree on the value of an inverter unit. Noise and fuel consumption will be vastly improved. I'd recommend oversizing by 25% to be on the safe side. Keep in mind running loads will be two thirds to half of the startup voltage you're planning for, so the set won't be running at max amps the entire time.

 

[Rand]

I have two non-inverter generators, 18 hp and 5 hp, and I 100% agree on the value of an inverter unit. Noise and fuel consumption will be vastly improved. I'd recommend oversizing by 25% to be on the safe side. Keep in mind running loads will be two thirds to half of the startup voltage you're planning for, so the set won't be running at max amps the entire time.

I would say that's mostly correct, except if you're running a generator at 60% load or more. There won't be that much difference in noise or fuel consumption.
The nice thing about inverter is you can oversize your generator for your biggest loads yet still have fuel savings on smaller loads.

Ie 1000w load on a 3500w unit etc

 

[alarmguy]

How much do you want to spend?

Champion has a 2500 watt portable for just under $600 that is dual fuel. Its small. They claim 25 hour run time on a 20 gallon propane tank.

If you do go that route, blue rhino tanks are not full, if you get a new tank, take it to tractor supply and top it up.

I do hear that generators are not easy to start on propane.

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Pow.../B0CRLWJSSX/ref=sr_1_5?crid=38CV3VQ9UJM2G&dib

IN my first post #1 I would be ok with $850 and better if I pick it up on sale. Seems like the price is in line with what you posted taking into account in post #1 it is rated at 3,200 watts which will be a little less on propane gas instead of gasoline.
https://www.costco.com/firman-3200w...uel-inverter-generator.product.100843922.html

We have a 120 gallon propane tank. (420lb) to tap into. Supplies the tankless water heater, gas cooktop and fireplace.

Keeping in perspective is I dont know if I will ever get any use out of it during my lifetime. I guess it would be fun to be prepared for that once or twice 10 year storm
I dont need a whole house that is for sure. I look at this as a fun type of thing if we ever lose power. To keep the refrigerator running, a small window AC unit 5 or 6,000 btu and our TV/internet service

Long term I thought of one other possible issue. Our sewer system in our county, each house has a buried tank, as it fills a macerator pump turns on and empties underground to the sewer line in the street. That runs on a 220. This would complicate things if I wanted to keep it simple. Then we would start getting into a lock out switch and outlet for the inverter in the breaker box if I cared to address this.

 

[dlundblad]

I would get a Honda EU2200. Use E0 fuel with stabilizer. Exercise bi yearly/ yearly. It won’t run everything at once, but with load shedding that’s not an issue. Less fuel consumption too.

I definitely wouldn’t put all of my essential 120v loads on the same phase nor would I back feed said phase with an outdoor receptacle on an 20 amp circuit that is also on same phase with a double male cord. I suppose if one was to not take my advice and do this, they would have to turn off the main and all non essential 120v and 240v breakers that are on that phase.

 

[alarmguy]

Soooo ... feeling a bit dopey today! I know a lot about electricity and have done much wiring in my lifetime. However I have zero experience with generators/inverters

So I just realized as in the first examples of my original post #1
One unit is 120 volts and not capable of supplying 220/240 If and only if I wanted to take it a step further to power the macerator for our sewer hook- up I would be out of luck.
This could be a big mistake (again for something I might never need, meaning a generator.
I was fooled by the 30AMP RV hookup that is only 120volts
I may as well go all the way for a 30AMP 240 volt hook up.
Such as the second one in my OP or something like this.

I really do not want to spend a lot of money. Im looking at this as a fun thing knowing we have it (mostly my wife) as "insurance" which we may never need.
Soooo ... I see this one as well, 240 outlet.
Also a note "parallel connect only"
Why does it say that? Isnt it a given that plug is used to plug into a circuit breaker panel with a lock out device?

Am I missing something here? (also this price seems almost too good to be true?)

https://www.amazon.com/WEN-6800-Watt-RV-Ready-Generator-DF680iX/dp/B0DVF1RPCJ/ref=sr_1_3?

 

[spasm3]

Soooo ... feeling a bit dopey today! I know a lot about electricity and have done much wiring in my lifetime. However I have zero experience with generators/inverters

So I just realized as in the first examples of my original post #1
One unit is 120 volts and not capable of supplying 220/240 If and only if I wanted to take it a step further to power the macerator for our sewer hook- up I would be out of luck.
This could be a big mistake (again for something I might never need, meaning a generator.
I was fooled by the 30AMP RV hookup that is only 120volts
I may as well go all the way for a 30AMP 240 volt hook up.
Such as the second one in my OP or something like this.

I really do not want to spend a lot of money. Im looking at this as a fun thing knowing we have it (mostly my wife) as "insurance" which we may never need.
Soooo ... I see this one as well, 240 outlet.
Also a note "parallel connect only"
Why does it say that? Isnt it a given that plug is used to plug into a circuit breaker panel with a lock out device?

Am I missing something here? (also this price seems almost too good to be true?)
View attachment 291236
View attachment 291239
https://www.amazon.com/WEN-6800-Watt-RV-Ready-Generator-DF680iX/dp/B0DVF1RPCJ/ref=sr_1_3?

For what you want to run, do you really need an invertor generator? I run my house with no issue on a non inverter. TV computer etc.

The flywheel of a non inverter sometimes helps buffer the startup loads like a window ac.

 

[alarmguy]

For what you want to run, do you really need an invertor generator? I run my house with no issue on a non inverter. TV computer etc.

The flywheel of a non inverter sometimes helps buffer the startup loads like a window ac.

I was only thinking of inverter for fuel savings. Not monetary but propane wise. I didnt want to mess with gasoline so a smaller type of Inverter that will sip fuel might make our 120 gallon (420lb) propane tank last a couple days IF needed. The reason I dont want to mess with gas is I HONESTLY dont know if I will ever need the darn thing *LOL*

I have also seen a few run tests on YouTube with the inverters connected to a fully filled just shy of 5 gallons (20LB) propane tank and run for 12 hours at half power, in that case 1500 watts constant using a 1500watt plug in heater.

If I understand correctly a generator runs full speed and doesnt adjust down with a smaller load. I would be concerned about not having enough propane keeping in mind the main 120 gallon will not always be full but we do also have two 5 gallon (20lb) for our gas grill around with one always full.

I know I overthink things and many times that leads me to do nothing. However that WEN inverter seems like a good deal. (assuming WEN is a good brand)

I got to get out of BITOG right now. Appreciate feedback.

 

[NETWizz]

I have three inverter generators... one of which is the EU2200i, which is by far the very best 2000 ish watt generator probably ever made.

Your loads however, fit into the "it might do it" category. Let me explain. Undoubtedly you have plenty of power to run your window AC, your fridge is no problem, the 65 inch TV only needs maybe 100 W.

The issue is starting the loads. Your side-by-side will briefly pull probably 600w to 800w then drop to 60 to 100 watts. No worries there. The Window AC will likely want 1,500 to 3,300 to start then need only 300w - 600w to keep running.

An EU2200 might start a window AC maybe (might not), but what happens when you try to start it and your fridge at exactly the same time because that happens to be when they cycle? Also what happens when you are running the TV?

My guess is that sometimes randomly you will hear it REV to the moon and the TV might go black then come back on and everything else is running OR... you hear it REV to the moon then go very quiet and all your loads stop, and you have a red overload light.

*****

The facts are you may need two generators. At night if you just need your side-by side, Internet, fans, TV, etc. it will do great. Then something larger to run your big stuff when you need it. If you have a way to start it, I have no doubt the EU2200 could keep a Window AC running. Maybe a power station like a Jackery with a 3000 watt inverter is the answer then use the inverter to charge it.

AT night, you could then go silent running, too. Just switch to your power station.

 

[alarmguy]

I have three inverter generators... one of which is the EU2200i, which is by far the very best 2000 ish watt generator probably ever made.

Your loads however, fit into the "it might do it" category. Let me explain. Undoubtedly you have plenty of power to run your window AC, your fridge is no problem, the 65 inch TV only needs maybe 100 W.

The issue is starting the loads. Your side-by-side will briefly pull probably 600w to 800w then drop to 60 to 100 watts. No worries there. The Window AC will likely want 1,500 to 3,300 to start then need only 300w - 600w to keep running.

An EU2200 might start a window AC maybe (might not), but what happens when you try to start it and your fridge at exactly the same time because that happens to be when they cycle? Also what happens when you are running the TV?

My guess is that sometimes randomly you will hear it REV to the moon and the TV might go black then come back on and everything else is running OR... you hear it REV to the moon then go very quiet and all your loads stop, and you have a red overload light.

*****

The facts are you may need two generators. At night if you just need your side-by side, Internet, fans, TV, etc. it will do great. Then something larger to run your big stuff when you need it. If you have a way to start it, I have no doubt the EU2200 could keep a Window AC running. Maybe a power station like a Jackery with a 3000 watt inverter is the answer then use the inverter to charge it.

AT night, you could then go silent running, too. Just switch to your power station.

Thanks for the response. I am sure the Honda unit is great but for something that I might never use (and if I do it will be a once, twice, maybe three times in my lifetime use) I could pick up what I posted in post #29 for way less than the cost of the Honda with over 100% more power and way more than 100% surge power, plus it will run on propane (a must have, unless I am missing something here.
The WEN for my use seems like a killer deal. Oh and the Honda cant be plugged into my circuit breaker panel. It doesnt have 240volts anyway, just not powerful enough for our home.

 

[Cruisin'n5thgear]

For the use you're describing, 240V in particular, makes a lot of sense to go non inverter, medium capacity. Around the 7k mark is plenty of juice, a generator is one area you don't want under-buy. You can always think of other things you want to run once you have it, as you've realized just planning out your current needs.

I'm in a similar spot where I would love to downsize to a 2200 Honda, but what if I want to run a shopvac and tablesaw? Or air compressor and tablesaw? Or multiple bounce house blowers? 2200 watts goes really fast, especially with startup loads.