Looking at used BMW 528 or 3 series

[dgreen]

Taking a new job in March and giving up my company car. Looking for daily driver sedan, seeking a reliable, well-engineered, safe, and fun car for the commute to work (15 minutes) and the trip back and forth to current home until it sells (3 hours, 1x per week on weekends). Have a 3 year-old and a 7 month-old so there will be car seats in the back seat.

Looking at a grandma-driven, garage-kept 2000 528I with 120K on the clock or a 2004 3 series with 150K miles.

I like the larger size of the 528 and the lower miles. Price is the same on both. The 528 is in much more gently used condition.

Can anyone give any commentary on durability, serviceability by a modestly advanced DIYer, any problems to look for as I evaluate each car, known issues, or any other comments by anyone who has owned either of these vehicles?

Also welcome comments on oil choice, I have heard these cars feel real good about 40wt flavors. Thanks in advance

 

[OVERKILL]

The E39's are fantastic cars but do have their share of things to watch for. Do you have the maintenance history for the car?

A few items I can think of off the top of my head:

- Valve cover gasket
- Oil filter housing gasket
- Guibo
- Coolant overflow tank

The 2.8L I6 is very reliable, decent on fuel, quiet and smooth. The interiors as you've probably noticed are extremely well put together.

I own both a 3'er and a 5'er and I'd buy another 5'er over the 3'er in a heartbeat.

 

[hattaresguy]

I'd be more interested in the 5 than the 3.

Rebuild the cooling system and they seem to hold up well enough.

 

[DuckRyder]

There is good aftermarket support for BMWs and a couple of excellent forums...

The 5 series is known as an E39

The 3 an E46...

For the same money, I would go with the older but lower mileage and better kept car myself.

Bentley manuals are available for both.

Someone will be along with specific information soon I'm sure, IIRC they both use M50 series engines and it the E39 is a sport package car all that much better...

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Rebuild the cooling system and they seem to hold up well enough.

Yup. Factor in doing a complete cooling system overhaul every 60-80K miles so that it doesn't surprisingly go out on you and overheats the engine. These cars give very little warning. Mine has 87K miles right now. Various parts of the cooling system started giving way at around 70K miles... luckily I caught it in time.

Also, VANOS seals typically go bad on these engines. There are better aftermarket seals that fix the issue...
http://www.beisansystems.com/


As far as other common issues... valve cover gasket, thrust arm bushings, window regulators, final stage units (part of HVAC)... nothing particularly major. The cooling system is the weak spot that you always have to keep an eye on.

http://edgemotorworks.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=55

http://www.bimmershops.com/e39-5-series-common-problems

 

[dparm]

When you say grandma-driven, do you mean that literally? If so, that makes me a bit nervous. Low-mileage grocery-getters appear tempting but can turn out to be massive headaches in the long run.

I saw this when shopping for M3s. Lots of them were weekend cars, meaning that you'd see a 2008 with 35k on the clock. "Only driven on weekends in the summer" was a common phrase. That meant a 6-7 year old car was still on the original tires, only had 2 or 3 oil changes in total, etc, and it was going to be due for a LOT of maintenance.

If you really want a BMW or something along those lines, you're better off with a recent model with higher mileage. Any problems the car had would've been exposed by now, and it means the owner was probably doing lots of highway miles which are not as stressful. My 2011.5 M3 had 46k on the clock when I bought it, and literally had ZERO problems (VIN report from the dealer showed it had never gone in for a single warranty claim).

 

[typ901]

Agree about the cooling system maintenance! That killed our '98 E39-overheat and blown head gasket. Bavauto has a better designed water pump. Pre-Inspection and then replace water pump, thermostat and get the system flushed regardless...good insurance as you are talking about a car over 10 years old.

 

[andyd]

120k is enough mileage. When the cooling system refresh is done, dont overlook the expansion tank. You also should replace the timing belt immediately. Service records are a plus. I would go with the 528i, but I'm biased

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: andyd
120k is enough mileage. When the cooling system refresh is done, dont overlook the expansion tank. You also should replace the timing belt immediately. Service records are a plus. I would go with the 528i, but I'm biased

Timing belt? It has a chain

And yes, definitely take a look at the expansion tank, that's what went on my sister's 330i.

My M5 has, touch wood, been close to perfect thus far. But it was a one-owner car and came from Edmonton. It also has different cooling system parts and other things that perhaps tie into that.

As an additional thing worth noting:

Anything you need for it you can get from Bavauto, and the parts are inexpensive. The cars are extremely easy to work on and I'd take the effort to see if you can find a downloadable copy of TIS, I've found it to be quite useful.

 

[dparm]

dgreen: get the VIN and have your local dealer give you a printout of its service history. Check the DAVIS number (printed near the top usually) -- this number is a rough indicator of how reliable the car has been. Lower is better.

 

[Hokiefyd]

As a parent with two children myself, I wouldn't choose a 3-series sedan. I'd sell one if it were given to me. There's just not much room. Heck, I wouldn't choose ANY sedan myself (see signature), but of the two, the 5-series would appeal to me more because of the space. I'd look for wagons if possible, though I know they're MUCH less common.

 

[bepperb]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
As a parent with two children myself, I wouldn't choose a 3-series sedan. I'd sell one if it were given to me. There's just not much room. Heck, I wouldn't choose ANY sedan myself (see signature), but of the two, the 5-series would appeal to me more because of the space. I'd look for wagons if possible, though I know they're MUCH less common.


This is some sage advice. A 3 series sized car is a non-starter. Kids don't get smaller. The amount of stuff they want to bring along doesn't either. If it were me... well... I'd probably wait a few years before buying a car that was going to take a bunch of my time. But if a BMW with 6 figures on the odometer was what I needed in my life it would be a X3 or similar.

Of course I don't know if you have a wife with a minivan, that would certainly change the equation.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Some may be surprised, but the amount of interior room in E46 and E39 is not much different. E46 has 91 cubic feet of space. E39 has 95. They both have the same amount of leg room and head room, front and rear. E39 has about 1.5 inches more of shoulder room. That's it. Trunk space is almost identical. The e39 5-series is a fairly small sedan by today's standards.

For carrying more cargo, I do agree with the earlier suggestion of finding a wagon version, but they're not that common.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: dparm
When you say grandma-driven, do you mean that literally? If so, that makes me a bit nervous. Low-mileage grocery-getters appear tempting but can turn out to be massive headaches in the long run.

I saw this when shopping for M3s. Lots of them were weekend cars, meaning that you'd see a 2008 with 35k on the clock. "Only driven on weekends in the summer" was a common phrase. That meant a 6-7 year old car was still on the original tires, only had 2 or 3 oil changes in total, etc, and it was going to be due for a LOT of maintenance.

If you really want a BMW or something along those lines, you're better off with a recent model with higher mileage. Any problems the car had would've been exposed by now, and it means the owner was probably doing lots of highway miles which are not as stressful. My 2011.5 M3 had 46k on the clock when I bought it, and literally had ZERO problems (VIN report from the dealer showed it had never gone in for a single warranty claim).


I kind of disagree. I have a 30 year old grocery getter with 72k miles, and Ill drive it to the beach or anyplace else I care at any time. Anyone who hung on to the standard 3 months/3000 mile OCIs that are traditional still changed oil once a year or so, and most other fluids are good for years regardless.

Its all in the price. If the deal is right to allow for the PM that one wants to baseline the vehicle how they are comfortable, then the lower mileage model is not a worry.

Plus, Id rather have fewer tire changes for others to botch or pick garbage tires, etc.

It is VERY situation dependent, and if one can get a good deal/price and get the work done, I think its a better deal.

My 91 318i was bought in 2002 with 72k, and now nearly 100k later, I cant say that any concerns were manifested. With two 30 year old vehicles in the stable that get used to some level for DDs, I cant say that Ive ever been bit!

 

[edwardh1]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Rebuild the cooling system and they seem to hold up well enough.

Yup. Factor in doing a complete cooling system overhaul every 60-80K miles so that it doesn't surprisingly go out on you and overheats the engine. These cars give very little warning. Mine has 87K miles right now. Various parts of the cooling system started giving way at around 70K miles... luckily I caught it in time.

Also, VANOS seals typically go bad on these engines. There are better aftermarket seals that fix the issue...
http://www.beisansystems.com/


As far as other common issues... valve cover gasket, thrust arm bushings, window regulators, final stage units (part of HVAC)... nothing particularly major. The cooling system is the weak spot that you always have to keep an eye on.

http://edgemotorworks.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=55

http://www.bimmershops.com/e39-5-series-common-problems

=======
I thought vanos repairs were $3000-$5000???

and whats with cooling system replacement at 60-80.
Toyota and Honda I have owned go easily 100,000 plus on water pumps radiators etc

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Some may be surprised, but the amount of interior room in the E46 and E39 is not much different. E46 has 91 cubic feet of space. E39 has 95. They both have the same amount of leg room and head room, front and rear. E39 has about 1.5 inches more of shoulder room. That's it. Trunk space is almost identical. The e39 5-series is a fairly small sedan by today's standards.

For carrying more cargo, I do agree with the earlier suggestion of finding a wagon version, but they're not that common.


When I read about two car seats, I got a bit worried. I think a toyota avalon would be a better choice. Rear space is essential, especially if you run a higher-end/better rear facing baby seat. Forward facing is only recommended after 2, and in some countries they go longer.

Of course this is all contingent also on how tall you are... But if a front seat rider is fairly tall (Im 6ft4-5) they may not be able to fit and especially drive.

I cant drive my wife's VW rabbit due to the rear facing seat (evenflo E3 symphony). And I fit very well and comfortably in the rear seat of that car, so its not exactly small.

Two rear facing seats = minivan or suburban, IMO

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I cant drive my wife's VW rabbit due to the rear facing seat (evenflo E3 symphony). And I fit very well and comfortably in the rear seat of that car, so its not exactly small.

By the way, your rabbit actually has more rear leg room than my E39. LOL! At least on paper. The E39 does indeed feel cramped in the back if the front driver/passenger are reasonably tall and pull their seats back some.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
As a parent with two children myself, I wouldn't choose a 3-series sedan. I'd sell one if it were given to me. There's just not much room. Heck, I wouldn't choose ANY sedan myself (see signature), but of the two, the 5-series would appeal to me more because of the space. I'd look for wagons if possible, though I know they're MUCH less common.


This is some sage advice. A 3 series sized car is a non-starter. Kids don't get smaller. The amount of stuff they want to bring along doesn't either. If it were me... well... I'd probably wait a few years before buying a car that was going to take a bunch of my time. But if a BMW with 6 figures on the odometer was what I needed in my life it would be a X3 or similar.

Of course I don't know if you have a wife with a minivan, that would certainly change the equation.


We intentionally avoided a minivan by only having one kid, from 1998 to 2001 we vacationed with our toddler in either my wife's 318ti or my Club Sport. She reluctantly traded her 3er for an E39 528i only because both of our widowed mothers no longer drove.

With all that behind us and my son in college she is back in a 3er again- but considering a Cooper S Clubman(she dislikes vehicles over 180" long and over 3500 lbs. as much-or more-than I do...

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I would avoid either if they have an AT and it hasn't been serviced.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: edwardh1
I thought vanos repairs were $3000-$5000???

Not unless you let a BMW dealer handle the repairs. It's a DIY repair, but even if you order the Beisan parts and have an indy do the work, it shouldn't be anywhere near $3-$5K cost.

Quote:

and whats with cooling system replacement at 60-80.
Toyota and Honda I have owned go easily 100,000 plus on water pumps radiators etc

Cooling system is a well known weak spot in this vintage BMWs. That's why I pointed it out so that the OP is aware. Nobody here is claiming that a BMW of that vintage is as reliable as a Honda/Toyota, statistically. But it's not too bad either, and it's not an appliance.

By the way, what's up with failing transmissions on Accords of that era? They conk out long before hitting 100K miles. No car is perfect...