Loathing specific manufacturer for no reason

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Originally Posted By: Cujet
Haha, funny topic! VW certainly deserves my rage! As my Jetta TDI was a horrible car.

Otherwise, I'd have to say that there is no manufacturer that I dislike. I do recognize that all common manufacturers make something good.


I think that is what it comes down to.. I have a car I like from every manufacturer. Some way less, or more, than others.
 
I rent a lot of cars traveling for work. The only ones I hate are Fords, but only for the horrible Sync interface. I use National, where you get to pick your own car at the airport, most of the time, and I always try to avoid Fords for that reason!
 
As a tech I loathe anything that has questionable or down right idiotic engineering. I think all manufacturers fall into this category at some point. When it comes down to the classic Ford vs GM debate, I'm a GM guy.
 
I don't hate any automaker. There ARE several companies that don't build anything that I find even remotely interesting to own and drive- but I simply ignore them; for my purposes they don't exist.
 
Hyundai becuase my college girlfriends 1986 excel was a pile of trash. We left at Laguardia.

Currently I think they have no class because of owners I know. I don't know a single classy person who owns Hyundai or Kia.

Clearly not reasons to loathe that make.
 
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Hyundai becuase my college girlfriends 1986 excel was a pile of trash. We left at Laguardia.

Currently I think they have no class because of owners I know. I don't know a single classy person who owns Hyundai or Kia.

Clearly not reasons to loathe that make.


Yeah, 1980s Korean cars were bad... but then again, anything not Japanese at the time was generally horrific. A few shining diamonds can be found in the heap of dung but the mid-80s was a bad time for most makes. See Pontiac T1000.

Oh, I know a lot of wonderful folks who own a diverse set of vehicles...including Hyundai and Kia. Several academics too. I see that you are out of New England... I assume that there might be a reason for a lack of "class" for that reason alone.
wink.gif


Just a reminder than the military-tradition of my alma mater kept the cannons pointed north "just in case".
whistle.gif
 
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc

Yeah, 1980s Korean cars were bad... but then again, anything not Japanese at the time was generally horrific. A few shining diamonds can be found in the heap of dung but the mid-80s was a bad time for most makes. See Pontiac T1000

I'd say that there were a significant number of Japanese cars from the 80s that sucked.
Mom had a 1985 Nissan Maxima. That car was so unreliable that dad's 1987 Hyundai Excel was more reliable. Friends had 1986, 1987, and 1988 models and they all suffered from the same problems. In 1989, Nissan created a new generation of Maxima that was great.
Nearly every turbocharged RX-7 had an engine with a short life. They are so much fun to drive that people accepted it, and rebuilt the engine when it died.
Mitsubishi never gained the reputation that Honda and Toyota did. It took them many years to finally build an engine that didn't burn so much oil through the valve guides and seals.
Most Hondas were good, but if you had a carb or smog related problem, there was far more vacuum and heat operated smog gadgetry than nearly every other car.

As for mid-1980s cars outside Japan, there were several good ones.
The Ford Crown Vic built up a great reputation as one of the toughest cars of all time.
Benz made several good cars and their diesel engines became famous for being so tough.
People called 80s Volvos bricks for 2 reasons: They were square and they lasted a very long time. Although many turbocharged gasoline engines were awful at the time, Volvo engines lasted a long time.
SAAB wasn't as good as the previous cars on the list because front wheel drive components from the 80s sucked. However, unlike many 80s cars, the turbo engine was rock solid.
 
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
I wonder if other people just hate specific manufacturers for not good reason. I do. Right now, it is VW. Don't ask me why.

While posting about a VW, I was thinking about how much VW could make me enter a red mist of online rage (ok, not really, but close). I am realizing that for some reason I just disagree with VW's current "philosophy" ...which is odd. Top-to-bottom, just hate. I do not like what they produce, how they position it, or their corporate identity... period. Scandal aside, the way they make cars just bugs the living daylight out of me. Do I have a bad experience with VW? Nope. The biggest life-experience with VW was learning stick/performance-oriented driving on a Fox, but that was fun so my hate has to be something else. I have never liked their cars (save for the MkV GTI, Corrado) or really hate a specific model. There are exceptions that prove the rule, but they are exceptions. Audi, meh, I liked their previous design. That was about it. I would take an S5 with the 4.2 in a heartbeat due to the style but it is an exception... and I would like to keep my S5 fantasies just that: unrealized. At times I have wanted a VW up until I experienced it and then I rage-quit. Sitting in my sister-in-laws new Jetta I was fighting the urge to not "critique" it. "Get me out" is all I was thinking.

Even other manufacturer like Chrysler (which I have had a lot of bad experience with) I can at least respect what they do. The HEMI-murican mentality... I get it. I would never buy a Mopar paperweight for fear of reliability issues but I get the Chrysler mentality (and quietly cheer them on). I see a reason for their choices even if it is something I would not do myself. Other makes, Ford, GM, Honda, Kia, Fiat... I get. If I have had a bad experience, I can pinpoint it. Maybe at times I like to rage against "new" Honda compared to what they used to be but I can, at least wrap my head around their demise. Volkswagen might as well be evil-incarnate. An irrational choice with only irrational reactions possible. VW, might as well be producing hate filled vehicles from the 30s as to my reaction (which I even realize are not always valid).

Anyone else hate a make for no-good reason?


Chrysler has given me excellent service over the years. I think it's one of the best manufacturers out there. Drive one and see how comfortable, quiet and powerful they are for the price. My only complaint with them is some of the older models (mainly trucks) got bad gas mileage. I like the domestic makes because they employ union members and use mainly US suppliers. To me it's all about keeping jobs here, although there are some import makes that make stuff here too.
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc

Yeah, 1980s Korean cars were bad... but then again, anything not Japanese at the time was generally horrific. A few shining diamonds can be found in the heap of dung but the mid-80s was a bad time for most makes. See Pontiac T1000

I'd say that there were a significant number of Japanese cars from the 80s that sucked.
Mom had a 1985 Nissan Maxima. That car was so unreliable that dad's 1987 Hyundai Excel was more reliable. Friends had 1986, 1987, and 1988 models and they all suffered from the same problems. In 1989, Nissan created a new generation of Maxima that was great.
Nearly every turbocharged RX-7 had an engine with a short life. They are so much fun to drive that people accepted it, and rebuilt the engine when it died.
Mitsubishi never gained the reputation that Honda and Toyota did. It took them many years to finally build an engine that didn't burn so much oil through the valve guides and seals.
Most Hondas were good, but if you had a carb or smog related problem, there was far more vacuum and heat operated smog gadgetry than nearly every other car.

As for mid-1980s cars outside Japan, there were several good ones.
The Ford Crown Vic built up a great reputation as one of the toughest cars of all time.
Benz made several good cars and their diesel engines became famous for being so tough.
People called 80s Volvos bricks for 2 reasons: They were square and they lasted a very long time. Although many turbocharged gasoline engines were awful at the time, Volvo engines lasted a long time.
SAAB wasn't as good as the previous cars on the list because front wheel drive components from the 80s sucked. However, unlike many 80s cars, the turbo engine was rock solid.


I had an '88 S-10 base model with the Iron Duke 2.5 that was the best vehicle I ever owned in 40 years of driving.
 
My parents had Suburban 2500, Amc eagle and Buick century with 4cylinder in the 1980's serving them till 2000. All were excellent and did 200k+ without fuss. Not all vehicles were that bad or my parents just have incredible luck.
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist
I'd say that there were a significant number of Japanese cars from the 80s that sucked.
Mom had a 1985 Nissan Maxima. That car was so unreliable that dad's 1987 Hyundai Excel was more reliable. Friends had 1986, 1987, and 1988 models and they all suffered from the same problems. In 1989, Nissan created a new generation of Maxima that was great.
Nearly every turbocharged RX-7 had an engine with a short life. They are so much fun to drive that people accepted it, and rebuilt the engine when it died.
Mitsubishi never gained the reputation that Honda and Toyota did. It took them many years to finally build an engine that didn't burn so much oil through the valve guides and seals.
Most Hondas were good, but if you had a carb or smog related problem, there was far more vacuum and heat operated smog gadgetry than nearly every other car.

As for mid-1980s cars outside Japan, there were several good ones.
The Ford Crown Vic built up a great reputation as one of the toughest cars of all time.
Benz made several good cars and their diesel engines became famous for being so tough.
People called 80s Volvos bricks for 2 reasons: They were square and they lasted a very long time. Although many turbocharged gasoline engines were awful at the time, Volvo engines lasted a long time.
SAAB wasn't as good as the previous cars on the list because front wheel drive components from the 80s sucked. However, unlike many 80s cars, the turbo engine was rock solid.


As I said, there are exceptions to the rule but when discussing the 80s, that decade had the "worst" cohort (the collective) of vehicles. This is when the Japanese made their gains as a mainstream option (compared to the 70s when they were cutting their teeth). Looking at the 80s "collector" options, it is Japanese heavy. Volvo was there, I give you that. An early 70s designed Benz were good... but you have to specify early 80s Benz... because that was only for Pre-1987 Mercs. You could say that the 80s killed the reliable Benz. Before Mercedes (good euphemism ) became a Mercedes (Bad euphemism). Maybe the best 80s born domestic example was the XJ, maybe the K cars. Still, an exception to a sea of despair.

The Vics did not exist as their "own" of sorts until 1991 as their own entity. From the late 70s through the 80s, it was the LTD CrownVic. I guess you can make an argument but I would say there is a difference between the Windsor and Modular transition. While it did have it merits, it was not something we would consider durable by current "Vic" standards. They disappeared quickly by the mid-90s. It did share the Panther Platform but I consider the current "durable Vic" did not happen until the inclusion of the Modular engine and really, it was more of the second-gen Vics than the early 90s models. Still, the Vic was not that bullet-proof in my experience/option. What made it last was its repair-ability as unibodies took over. The 4.6 held on, but the car would fall apart around it... but you could replace it.
 
I don't feel the need to waste emotions loathing vehicle manufacturers. You don't like a manufacturer, just stay away.
I've owned many of them. Honda, Nissan, Toyota. I've owned four Chevrolets. The best one had the Chevrolet nameplate stuck on a Toyota (Nova.) The other three were problematic.
I've owned three Chryslers. The best was a 1986 Chrysler Town& Country wagon. Dependable and parts were inexpensive. Had a new 1993 Fifth Avenue. It was a plethora of problems. They refused to stand behind their product. I had to pay to have the decklid repainted on a 6 month old car because it inexplicably started peeling and they refused to repaint it under warranty. Eight months in, I had to pay to have the stereo repaired because Chrysler refused to repair under warranty, even though I had a copy of the TSB that showed the unit was defective. Worked my way up to corporate. Too bad, so sad was the basic response. I have never had the desire to purchase another new Chrysler product. Doubt I ever will.
I have owned something like Eleven Ford or Mercury products. Not all of them have been great. I even went through Lemon Law on my last Mercury (1998 Villager.)
Of the three my favorite manufacturer is Ford. Maybe it is because I have always had a thing for Mustangs but the key factor for me is when I had problems, Ford stood behind their product and tried to rectify the situation. Neither GM or Chrysler did when I had issues. Good service wins out every time.
 
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I don't feel the need to waste emotions loathing vehicle manufacturers. You don't like a manufacturer, just stay away.
I've owned many of them. Honda, Nissan, Toyota. I've owned four Chevrolets. The best one had the Chevrolet nameplate stuck on a Toyota (Nova.) The other three were problematic.
I've owned three Chryslers. The best was a 1986 Chrysler Town& Country wagon. Dependable and parts were inexpensive. Had a new 1993 Fifth Avenue. It was a plethora of problems. They refused to stand behind their product. I had to pay to have the decklid repainted on a 6 month old car because it inexplicably started peeling and they refused to repaint it under warranty. Eight months in, I had to pay to have the stereo repaired because Chrysler refused to repair under warranty, even though I had a copy of the TSB that showed the unit was defective. Worked my way up to corporate. Too bad, so sad was the basic response. I have never had the desire to purchase another new Chrysler product. Doubt I ever will.
I have owned something like Eleven Ford or Mercury products. Not all of them have been great. I even went through Lemon Law on my last Mercury (1998 Villager.)
Of the three my favorite manufacturer is Ford. Maybe it is because I have always had a thing for Mustangs but the key factor for me is when I had problems, Ford stood behind their product and tried to rectify the situation. Neither GM or Chrysler did when I had issues. Good service wins out every time.


Well this is neither a bad experience nor as a burned/jilted customer. I get that if you had X car and you hate the brand for an issue. That is not my target of hate. It is an unexplained reaction to a non-point-source item. VW does not make sense and it is a constant irritant. It is a philosophical disagreement with the business identity/ and corporate practice. It is something like: "Why in the "FLUGELHORN" did they chose to make that X decision".
 
So far I have owned a GM, a Hyundai, and a Nissan. Here are my thoughts so far:

GM ownership: I bought a 1997 Pontiac Grand Am at 60K miles in 2007. It was great as a first car. I wrecked it after owning it for a few months (I was 17, okay?) and got it rebuilt because of the low mileage. I drove it during college and had a few problems, such as an alternator dying before I had to go to court back home the following morning and the a/c compressor and heater core dying in the same summer. This was the first year that GM cars had Dexcool, and I had a lot of problems with the cooling system. I believe that during the last two years of college and first year out nearly the entire cooling system was redone and it still leaked some coolant. I eventually traded it with my parents for the Hyundai and my dad just finished overhauling engine repairs so that he can drive it on days when he can't use my mom's car or his work van.

Hyundai ownership: I got a 2002 Elantra in the winter of 2014 with 107K miles. Initially, I HATED this car, but the Pontiac had become too unreliable to be a daily driver, especially when I was between full-time jobs and couldn't afford emergency repairs on a bi-weekly basis. After getting a wheel bearing replaced and a full front brake job a few months into ownership, this car has failed to get me to my destination twice in the time I've owned it; both times for overheat problems caused by worn out hoses. Reflecting back, I am kind of bothered that I ended up with a job that made me do a lot of local travel because this car could have easily gotten me by for a long time. I don't drive it much right now at 198K miles due to the lack of air conditioning and a laundry list of maintenance that needs to be done before I put it back into full-time service, but I still keep it around.

Nissan ownership: I bought a 2015 Sentra new in May of 2016 with 56 original miles. So far, there has been no trouble at 6K miles. I hadn't wanted to drive this much for work, but the unusually hot summer along with belt and brake issues have me driving this most days until it cools off some. The fuel economy is usually great, though I wish it had a little more power for going up hills and passing. I hope to keep this car for a long time, as I genuinely like it and could get a better deal on it than a Cruze or Elantra GT, the next two cars I was seriously considering to buy.
 
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Good service wins out every time.



This.

Almost every lemon experience could have been rectified instantly with a free rental car and some SERVICE! Any Lexus owner knows, some other dealers are getting smart and figuring it out.

I have seen many instances where a new car had unfamiliar tech in it and the dealer could not accurately diagnose it, much less fix it.

There is a large range between the excellent service providers and the really poor dealers...
 
I put more than a million miles on Volvos, 1970 into the early 80s, 140s and 240s. All of the sudden, one day I was sitting in a 244 with ~210K on it, thinking, "If I keep changing the oil with M1 every 5000, this unit will be a million-mile car. Imagine, another 800000 miles of the most boring gutless driving on earth, you-can't-hit-70-on-a-downhill-if-there's-a-headwind driving, and paying grossly over-inflated prices for spare parts, and just stretching on and on and on forever. I can be sitting in this same car 30 years from now, yawning with chasmic boredom. It's like tedium redoubled in spades, it's like the driving equivalent of reading French literary criticism, I should have named it "Sisyphus," it makes me want to just go ahead and die right now. I mean, dying driving this car, you wouldn't even notice you'd died."

So I sold it to a college student for $900, which I guess was a good deal since somebody else had awakened to the same revulsion I was feeling, and had given it to me. If that poor kid thinks it was going to be a chick magnet, he should consider which chicks it would attract - but I didn't tell him that. Anyway, my various Volvos were good and faithful servants, and THAT'S WHY I can't stand the thought of them now.
 
Originally Posted By: JEP
I put more than a million miles on Volvos, 1970 into the early 80s, 140s and 240s. All of the sudden, one day I was sitting in a 244 with ~210K on it, thinking, "If I keep changing the oil with M1 every 5000, this unit will be a million-mile car. Imagine, another 800000 miles of the most boring gutless driving on earth, you-can't-hit-70-on-a-downhill-if-there's-a-headwind driving, and paying grossly over-inflated prices for spare parts, and just stretching on and on and on forever. I can be sitting in this same car 30 years from now, yawning with chasmic boredom. It's like tedium redoubled in spades, it's like the driving equivalent of reading French literary criticism, I should have named it "Sisyphus," it makes me want to just go ahead and die right now. I mean, dying driving this car, you wouldn't even notice you'd died."

So I sold it to a college student for $900, which I guess was a good deal since somebody else had awakened to the same revulsion I was feeling, and had given it to me. If that poor kid thinks it was going to be a chick magnet, he should consider which chicks it would attract - but I didn't tell him that. Anyway, my various Volvos were good and faithful servants, and THAT'S WHY I can't stand the thought of them now.

beautiful!!!

WELCOME!!!! to BITOG! we are a WILD Bunch. but we are good in general (don't feed the trolls)
 
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