Little experiment....Going from 5W30 to 5W40

[edyvw]

As I said, the manual recommendation is base on CAFE requirements. Ambient temps can affect recommended viscosity choices...if not for CAFE... and those alternatives could be included in the manual. However, CAFE language doesn't mean a passenger car operated in usual fashion will be damaged by the CAFE recommendation of a well-formulated 0w20 even in "hot temperatures". That said, I run Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 in three vehicles that spec 0w20 because I prefer using oil with a higher HTHS compared to the theoretical tiny increase in fuel efficiency of 0w20. Altitude affects viscosity choice even more-so than ambient temps due to less dense air providing less cooling effect at elevation...I'd be more concerned about using a higher viscosity during high mountain driving than with humid-and-warm Florida climates. Florida really isn't all that hot compared to the desert Southwest...and there are some high mountains out there as well. Florida climate is a walk-in-the-park in comparison.

Just because you are hot, doesn’t mean engine is.
Florida at 90 degrees is piece of cake compared to Eisenhower tunnel in Colorado at 40 degrees.
If someone is concerned about cooling, lowering coolant concentration is far more meaningful than running 5W40 which increases resistance and with that adds heat.

 

[burbguy82]

As I said, the manual recommendation is base on CAFE requirements. Ambient temps can affect recommended viscosity choices...if not for CAFE... and those alternatives could be included in the manual. However, CAFE language doesn't mean a passenger car operated in usual fashion will be damaged by the CAFE recommendation of a well-formulated 0w20 even in "hot temperatures". That said, I run Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 in three vehicles that spec 0w20 because I prefer using oil with a higher HTHS compared to the theoretical tiny increase in fuel efficiency of 0w20. Altitude affects viscosity choice even more-so than ambient temps due to less dense air providing less cooling effect at elevation...I'd be more concerned about using a higher viscosity during high mountain driving than with humid-and-warm Florida climates. Florida really isn't all that hot compared to the desert Southwest...and there are some high mountains out there as well. Florida climate is a walk-in-the-park in comparison.

I dont know why everyone always wants to think of Florida as hot. Yes to humans, because of dew point, but that has little to do with a machine. Agreed.

Yes, air density and cooling correlation I can see, swinging one way or the other, 90 degrees at 7000 ft and 90 degrees at sea level would be a different dragon to slay. Agreed.

 

[Patman]

Far better? I doubt it. The difference in oil temp with ambient temperature is not massive.

It might not be “massive” but it can be somewhat significant depending upon the engine. My Corvette for example will only get up to about 180 degree oil and coolant temperatures if I take it out for a long highway drive on a winter day (below 32F for instance). But if I do that same long highway drive on a 90 degree day, the oil and coolant temperature ends up being closer to 210F.

 

[userfriendly]

Absolutely serious. Please explain to us who don’t know.

Here are two contrasting engine oils. One is 5W-40 and the other one is 5W-30.

Delo 400 xsp 5W-40
40C 96
100C 15.4
HTHS 4.2
API CK-4/SN+

Havoline Pro-DS 5W30
40C 62
100C 10.8
HTHS 3.2
API SP
Dexos 1 gen 3

Perhaps someone can explain what the numbers mean.

Who “us”? Is there more than one of you?

 

[edyvw]

Here are two contrasting engine oils. One is 5W-40 and the other one is 5W-30.

Delo 400 xsp 5W-40
40C 96
100C 15.4
HTHS 4.2
API CK-4/SN+

Havoline Pro-DS 5W30
40C 62
100C 10.8
HTHS 3.2
API SP
Dexos 1 gen 3

Perhaps someone can explain what the numbers mean.

Who “us”? Is there more than one of you?

OK, and?
What does that mean in "Florida heat?" Does his oil temperature jump by 20? 50 degrees in the summer months?
Because I drive a car in a place where it is much harder to cool off the engine than in Florida, and yet the oil temperature is steady, in January or July. The only difference is the time to reach operating oil temperature.
Or do you think oil knows it is hot, so it needs higher HTHS to feel better?

 

[Hohn]

It might not be “massive” but it can be somewhat significant depending upon the engine. My Corvette for example will only get up to about 180 degree oil and coolant temperatures if I take it out for a long highway drive on a winter day (below 32F for instance). But if I do that same long highway drive on a 90 degree day, the oil and coolant temperature ends up being closer to 210F.

Right, but the original assertion to which I was responding by @Legs4Arms was that the 5w-40 was "far better" in FL heat than a 5w-30 Restore and Protect.

It's one thing to claim that higher oil temps result in higher ambient temperatures. I don't think it's up for debate, it's a known fact. It's quite another to claim that on oil is better than another *based* on that temperature difference. It's the latter and not the former that I was rebutting.

Let's grant that in one place you have 180F oil temps and in the other you have 210F oil temps. Is there any basis to believe that Restore and Protect 5w-30 is somehow marginal at 210F temps? And that switching to Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40 would be "far better"?

I don't think so. I think at 210F the Valvoline product is quite sufficient all day long. Heck, even at 230 or 240F it's quite sufficient, just not as long lasting.

If we've learned anything, it's that viscosity is a tiebreaker within formulations. Formulation is more important than viscosity as long as we're not talking the thinnest of the thin. I'm a huge fan of thicker oils, well-documented on BITOG. But there's no way I'd run some cheap truck stop 15w-40 in place of Restore and Protect 5w-30 just because the former is thicker. And certainly not because of a change in ambient temps.

 

[Legs4Arms]

Far better? I doubt it. The difference in oil temp with ambient temperature is not massive.

Platinum Euro is very good oil and I’d run it with confidence. Heck, I think Ferrari specs it (as Helix Ultra) in some cases.

But it’s almost certainly not “far better “ than the flagship Valvoline product and certainly not due to Florida heat.

I suppose you're right. Just my opinion but I'll run the oil that's designed to protect the mechanical madness that is Ferrari and Porsche

 

[milanz]

Not sure if serious....

You do realize that your engine operating temperature will be the same as long as there's nothing wrong with your cooling system?

 

[milanz]

Right, but the original assertion to which I was responding by @Legs4Arms was that the 5w-40 was "far better" in FL heat than a Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w30.

It's one thing to claim that higher oil temps result in higher ambient temperatures. I don't think it's up for debate, it's a known fact. It's quite another to claim that on oil is better than another *based* on that temperature difference. It's the latter and not the former that I was rebutting.

Let's grant that in one place you have 180F oil temps and in the other you have 210F oil temps. Is there any basis to believe that Restore and Protect 5w-30 is somehow marginal at 210F temps? And that switching to Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40 would be "far better"?

I don't think so. I think at 210F the Valvoline product is quite sufficient all day long. Heck, even at 230 or 240F it's quite sufficient, just not as long lasting.

If we've learned anything, it's that viscosity is a tiebreaker within formulations. Formulation is more important than viscosity as long as we're not talking the thinnest of the thin. I'm a huge fan of thicker oils, well-documented on BITOG. But there's no way I'd run some cheap truck stop 15w-40 in place of Restore and Protect 5w-30 just because the former is thicker. And certainly not because of a change in ambient temps.

I would love for my oil temperature to run at 212F or slightly higher to ensure all condensed mousture evaporates and the sooner the better.
Unfortunately my Sonata oil temperature pretty much runs a bit below in Canadian winters and Florida summers. I love the July, August Florida heat and humidity. Reminds me of my time living in West Africa

 

[Bob_Fleming]

Does anyone here use oil pressure at hot idle to judge how thick the oil needs to be?

 

[RBT]

Does anyone here use oil pressure at hot idle to judge how thick the oil needs to be?

On certain euro high mileage motors, yes. Many years ago. Some of the cars would run very low oil pressure at idle - below 10 psi when the engine was healthy- and hot idle viscosity is important when you have relatively low oil pressure as normal. Most people think about oil in terms of flow and film and additives without realizing that adequate pressure is the most important thing.

 

[Bob_Fleming]

The small block chevy of last century is the one I know best. They can go well below 10 PSI and one can actually hear a clunking noise in some cases. I use any variety of 40 weight Mobil 1 from Walmart to maintain a sane oil pressure at hot idle. The guideline for those engines is 10 psi per 1,000 RPM but psychologically I can't deal with 5 PSI on the gauge at hot idle sitting in traffic.
Drives me crazy! 20 PSI at hot idle in gear makes me feel a lot better. Unsure what the engine thinks about that.

 

[mrgto]

Well, my experiment was ruined. I asked my mechanic to do a few things for me since I didn't have the time to do them(water pump,thermostat housing, and change the high pressure fuel pump). That's it. They changed the oil too. No idea why because only the high pressure fuel pump rides on the camshaft but that's at the top end. So they drained my 5W40 Pennzoil and installed a "Synthetic Blend" and a ****ty shop filter instead of my Mobil 1 filter that was on there. Slightly pissed. I never asked them to change the oil and they never mentioned they were going to change the oil.

I do understand that oil should be changed because of fuel dilution but they never mentioned it to me and had they I would have refused because the oil was so new. I've attached the Speed Dignostix report on the 5W30 Valvoline Restore and Protect. Just got that back.

 

[tcp71]

The small block chevy of last century is the one I know best. They can go well below 10 PSI and one can actually hear a clunking noise in some cases. I use any variety of 40 weight Mobil 1 from Walmart to maintain a sane oil pressure at hot idle. The guideline for those engines is 10 psi per 1,000 RPM but psychologically I can't deal with 5 PSI on the gauge at hot idle sitting in traffic.
Drives me crazy! 20 PSI at hot idle in gear makes me feel a lot better. Unsure what the engine thinks about that.

Lots of F150s ( up to 2018/19 or so for sure) don't have an actual oil pressure sensor, just a switch that is triggered at 7psi. The dummy gauge on the dash basically stays in the middle if the switch is triggered and drops to zero (with a warning) if the switch isn't triggered. both my 2016 eco and 2009 5.4 are like this.

 

[mrgto]

So some good and bad news. Bad news first. I got back the same sample of oil I had that I sent to Speed Diaganostix from Blackstone. The fuel dilution was super high. So I thankfully, I hope, the new fuel pump will solve that issue. I'll attach their findings in this post.
My shop did credit me back the $59 oil change after I mentioned it to them. So that was nice. But then I turned around and bought 6 more quarts of Pennzoil 5W40 Euro oil and I'll change out the oil later this morning. I guess whatever is in there, with now about 350 miles on it, can be considered flush oil. I'll post those results in 4K miles.

 

[kschachn]

Why would you use Blackstone? They are utterly incapable of determining the extent of fuel in a sample. Not just a bit off, but incapable.

 

[mrgto]

Why would you use Blackstone? They are utterly incapable of determining the extent of fuel in a sample. Not just a bit off, but incapable.

Compare it to Speed Diagnostix report. Same sample.

 

[Japanese]

I'm using 15w-40 in our '08 CRV which is in SoFLo. The previous fill was 5w-20 and the only thing I noticed is a quieter engine when cold.

Why would you use such a viscosity in Canada, unless it's gonna be drained before the winter?

 

[GSCJR]

Why would you use such a viscosity in Canada, unless it's gonna be drained before the winter?

I'm using 15w-40 in our '08 CRV which is in SoFLo

 

[kschachn]

Compare it to Speed Diagnostix report. Same sample.

Yes.