List of PAO Grp IV oils

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"You have to find just the right amount of the various additives - friction modifiers, anti-wear agents, detergents and dispersants - all of this stuff the chemical engineers are playing with to get just the right mix for that particular application,"...




I agree that it's foolish to think that home blending is going to produce something better than what the Chemist, ChemEs, and Tribologists cooked up and supported with extensive testing.

However, it's also foolish to think that all oils on the market are given the very best additive packages. In many cases, they may be balanced to achieve a certain level of performance and no more.

And the day RL, RP, JG, etc, start using only Group I/II/II+ basestocks for their racing oils, that'll be the day you will be able to convince me that basestocks don't matter.
 
Buster,

Why do you think M1 0w-40 is PAO but not 0w30 or 0w20, the 0w30 has the same pour point, and according to the 0w-20 bottle, it pours at -54 C, same as 0w30 and 0w-40. There is no spec sheet online for 0w-20, but the sheet for 5w-20 gives a pour point of -47 C and I would think the 0w-20 should be lower than the 5w-20
 
The Japanese website said that the 0w30 and 0w-40 were PAO only, not "PAO + hydroprocessed" as they put it. The 0w-20 could be all PAO/AN as well.
 
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The Japanese website said that the 0w30 and 0w-40 were PAO only, not "PAO + hydroprocessed" as they put it. The 0w-20 could be all PAO/AN as well.




Have a link???

like to read up on it..
 
Here's a translation:



5W-50

API SM/CF
ACEA A3, B4 and B3
Mercedes-Benz 229.3/229.1
Porsche and Volkswagen 505.00

Large aerodynamic volume displacement high output car, large aerodynamic volume displacement turbo car and advanced sport car

Mobile 1 5W-50 by the fact that the Exxon mobile individual additive system SuperSyn™ Anti-wear Technology is adopted for the improvement study synthetic basic oil which designates PAO as the main component, in under severer working condition is the chemosynthesis oil of the mobile 1 series highest peak which shows the engine protective efficiency which is superior. The powerful oil film is kept in under the severe operational circumstance, beginning kinesis and the hot high load where under of low temperature is superior, engine efficiency is pulled out effectively. In addition the efficiency which always is stabilized with wide viscosity quality, regardless of ope air temperature change is shown. Mobile 15 W-50 recommends to the especially large aerodynamic volume displacement high output car, the large aerodynamic volume displacement turbo car and the advanced sport car.
 


0W-40

API SM/CF
ACEA A3, B4 and B3
Mercedes-Benz 229.5/229.3
Porsche and BMW Longlife Oil 01
Volkswagen 503.01/502.00/505.00
Opel GM-LL A025/GM-LL B025

Advanced sport car, large aerodynamic volume displacement car and European car

Mobile 1 0W-40 by the fact that the Exxon mobile individual additive system SuperSyn™ Anti-wear Technology is adopted for the improvement study synthetic basic oil which designates PAO as the main component, in under severer working condition is the chemosynthesis oil which shows the engine protective efficiency which is superior.
When decrease of friction loss is pursued thoroughly, the powerful oil film is kept simultaneously, engine efficiency is pulled out with thermal stability and the resistance abrasiveness which are superior even under hot high load circumstance of the severe sport travelling time. It recommends mobile 10 W-40 to the advanced sport car, the large aerodynamic volume displacement car and the European car which include the turbo car.
 



5W-40

API SM/CF
ACEA A3, B4 and B3
Mercedes-Benz 229.3/229.1
Porsche and Volkswagen 502.00/505.00

Large aerodynamic volume displacement car, sport car and European car

Mobile 1 5W-40 by the fact that the Exxon mobile individual additive system SuperSyn™ Anti-wear Technology is adopted for the improvement study synthetic basic oil which designates PAO as the main component, in under severer working condition is the chemosynthesis oil which shows the engine protective efficiency which is superior.
While long haul high-speed travelling which is represented in the speed limitless superhighway with the advanced motor oil which was developed as purpose, protecting the engine from thermal load of the turbo car and the high output car with thermal stability and the low temperature flowability which are superior, it prevents the engine wear when starting with the low temperature flowability which is superior. With the motor oil which conforms to the various models which include the turbo car, it recommends mobile 15 W-40 to the especially large aerodynamic volume displacement car, the sport car and the European car.
 


15W-50

API SM/CF
ACEA A3, B4 and B3
Mercedes-Benz 229.1

Turbo car and high output car

Mobile 1 15W-50 by the fact that the Exxon mobile individual additive system SuperSyn™ Anti-wear Technology is adopted for the improvement study synthetic basic oil which designates PAO as the main component, in under severer working condition is the chemosynthesis oil which shows the engine protective efficiency which is superior.
Especially the engine is protected in under the severe operational circumstance, hot high load the thermal stability which is superior, with film strength. In addition, proper oil pressure and the secure lubricating action where abrasion proof efficiency and the powerful oil film retention efficiency which are superior are required from the advanced engine long haul are maintained. Mobile 115 W-50 supports severe running such as sport travelling, and circuit travelling recommends to the turbo car and the high output car.
 


0W-30

API SM/CF
ILSAC GF-4
ACEA A1 and B1

Hybrid car, high rotary type NA car and economical fuel economy NA car

Mobile 1 0w30 by the fact that the Exxon mobile individual additive system SuperSyn™ Anti-wear Technology is adopted for the improvement study synthetic basic oil which designates PAO as the main component, in under severer working condition is the chemosynthesis oil which shows the engine protective efficiency which is superior.
While pursuing the decrease of friction loss thoroughly, holding down power loss it actualizes the light accelerator response and economical fuel economy characteristic. In addition, as the engine is protected with thermal stability and the resistance abrasiveness which are superior NA (natural inhalation) efficiency of the engine is pulled out. Furthermore, more effectively, economical fuel economy efficiency is shown longer by passing to the economical fuel economy standard ILSAC of the motor oil GF-4. Mobile 10 W-30 the hybrid car and the high rotary type NA car, is the economical fuel economy NA car private motor oil.
 


5w30

API SM/CF
ILSAC GF-4
ACEA A1 and B1
GM 4718M
GM 6094M
DS MS-6395
Ford WSS-M2C929-A

Economical fuel economy small car, high rotary type NA car and large aerodynamic volume displacement NA car

It is the chemosynthesis oil which the additive system where mobile 1 5w30 the Exxon mobile individual advanced based oil (PAO + Hydroprocessed) begins SuperSyn™ Anti-wear Technology and is selected balance well is combined. With this individual based oil and the multiplier effect of the additive, more effectively, economical fuel economy efficiency is shown longer. Economical fuel economy standard ILSAC of the motor oil GF-4 has proven the efficiency. In addition, as engine wear when starting is prevented with low temperature flowability and the hot quality which are superior, the firm oil film is kept regarding severe operating condition and the engine is protected. Mobile 15 W-30 from the small car of economical fuel economy type, recommends to the high rotary type NA car and the large aerodynamic volume displacement NA car.
 



10W-30

API SM/CF
ILSAC GF-4
ACEA A1, B1, A5 and B5
GM 4718M
DC MS-6395

High rotary type NA car and large aerodynamic volume displacement NA car

It is the chemosynthesis oil which the additive system where mobile 1 10w30 the Exxon mobile individual advanced based oil (PAO + Hydroprocessed ) begins SuperSyn™ Anti-wear Technology and is selected balance well is combined. With this individual based oil and the multiplier effect of the additive, more effectively, economical fuel economy efficiency is shown longer. Economical fuel economy standard ILSAC of the motor oil GF-4 has proven the efficiency. In addition, the firm oil film is kept it is superior simultaneously hot with, regarding severe operating condition and the engine is protected. It recommends mobile 110 W-30 to the especially high rotary type NA car and the large aerodynamic volume displacement NA car.
 
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Why do you think M1 0w-40 is PAO but not 0w30 or 0w20, the 0w30 has the same pour point, and according to the 0w-20 bottle, it pours at -54 C, same as 0w30 and 0w-40. There is no spec sheet online for 0w-20, but the sheet for 5w-20 gives a pour point of -47 C and I would think the 0w-20 should be lower than the 5w-20




EOM specs for their oils are so inconsistent, even just on their own websites, let alone their bottles, I wouldn't trust anything they say nowadays.
 
It's hard to trust them at this point.
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Why do you get smug when someone wants to protect proprietary information? Do they not have a right to protect their own financial interests? Does your curiosity mean more than their trade secrets? Get a grip. You are just one guy overly fascinated with oil. No one is telling you to use their product if you dont get the answers you are looking for.

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RP is definitely a group IV.




When I spoke with RP at SEMA they shucked and jived about the Group IV question and any other sort of technical question. I got the impression that the RP guys would think anyone at BITOG was wacko for being interested in oil.

Synerlec is super secret stuff that only 2 or 3 people are said to know about.

The most I got out of them was that RP contained perhaps some mix of Group IV or other 'synthetics' and mineral oil to dissolve additives.

If RP wanted to get me interested in their product they failed miserably...they were smug and condescending.

Redline's booth was very low key and friendly and they answered my questions without any tap dancing or sneers.

Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec had great booths and very savvy reps who read the scripted lines beautifully...I couldn't learn a thing talking to these guys.


 
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Why do you get smug when someone wants to protect proprietary information? Do they not have a right to protect their own financial interests? Does your curiosity mean more than their trade secrets? Get a grip. You are just one guy overly fascinated with oil. No one is telling you to use their product if you dont get the answers you are looking for.

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RP is definitely a group IV.




That is true, but a few things make a difference.

If a salesman or rep doesn't know the answer, or can't share the information, they don't have to be rude or dishonest to a potential customer.

And, as we have seen with larger, marketing driven companies... all too often 'protected proprietary information' is used to hide deceptions and tricks that allow the companies to cheapen the product and increase profits, or hide problems with a product from a customer.

When I spent the time and money to travel to SEMA to find new products to add to my business... I didn't go there to give RP or any other vendor a hard time.

This is an industry show, and vendors are typically very pleasant and informative. And vendors and buyers are there to pursue new business.

Any major oil company no doubt has the ability to figure out exactly what a competitor's product contains, and can duplicate or better it, if desired.

If an oil company tells me more about their product, I'm not about to go into the oil refining or blending business. And Mobil or Shell aren't waiting on me to tell them RP's secrets.

But if companies want to make claims about being synthetic or having some important oil additive to a consumer...


-the consumer probably would like to know about the product's value. [ whether this 'synthetic' is a synthetic that can only be found in expensive products, or merely marketing hype and closer to an inexpensive oil] ,

- a consumer might like to learn if the miracle additive is safe and effective, or corrosive and potentially damaging and whether it could cause an EPA problem with disposal of waste oil tanks [like chlorinated products]

Not wanting to be cheated, is not the same as being smug.

If food companies weren't bound by law disclose ingredients, we'd all be eating 'mystery meat' or products that contained harmful products, or that merely claimed to be organic or all natural...etc.

Trans Fats , or hydrogenated oils, in foods are now a health and consumer issue. Would you want a company that made a food product to lie to you, or belittle you , or deceive you and hide behind 'protected proprietary information' when you atttempt to find out if the food contains trans fats?

Or, if a buyer was at a computer show, would a company be justified in being rude to a buyer if the buyer asked if the new laptops had lithium ion batteries that had solved the fire problem seen in certain Dell and other brand name notebooks? Or would that be protected proprietary information?

Bottom line, RP spent money to have a booth and staffed it with people who immediately drove me away as a customer....when I went there interested in trying the product.

K&N filters, on the other hand, had a booth and staff who addressed my concerns about internet discussions about there products.

K&N showed me real data, real tests, real warranty claims, real legal infomation and I left their booth with renewed confidence in K&N filters.
 
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Why do you get smug when someone wants to protect proprietary information? Do they not have a right to protect their own financial interests? Does your curiosity mean more than their trade secrets? Get a grip. You are just one guy overly fascinated with oil. No one is telling you to use their product if you dont get the answers you are looking for.




Interesting, I recall Enron saying something very similar.
 
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Why do you get smug when someone wants to protect proprietary information? Do they not have a right to protect their own financial interests? Does your curiosity mean more than their trade secrets? Get a grip. You are just one guy overly fascinated with oil. No one is telling you to use their product if you dont get the answers you are looking for.




Interesting, I recall Enron saying something very similar.





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LOL!! Ain't it the truth!
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Wouldn't it be nice if these large oil companies (Castrol and EOM) would just be straight about what they are producing...like Motul are about their oils. They tell you straight up...its double ester or PAO & Ester, or Mineral...sheesh at least you know where you stand and they still do fantastic business without having to live behind a veil of grey information...sad...
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Isn't it creepy how the big oil companies are educating the public about synthetic, advertising synthetic, getting synthetic on the Wal mart shelves....and then cheating the customers with cheaper faux synthetic?
 
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Isn't it creepy how the big oil companies are educating the public about synthetic, advertising synthetic, getting synthetic on the Wal mart shelves....and then cheating the customers with cheaper faux synthetic?




Exactly....its like ordering a rump steak and getting a burger patty, both fill your gut, but why pay the extra for a lesser product. I hate it when bean counters start squeezing companies and they make fundimental changes to their products that cheapens them.
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http://www.mobil1.jp/products_mobil1.html#FP

So XOM Japan, is flat out telling you that some of the grades do indeed have Group III base oil in the mix.




While I consider this good evidence that EOM is using group III in some of there formulations, I wouldn't count on the grades they state as PAO based in Japan, are the same thing we're getting in N. America.

If you look at how the specs changed at both the M1 and M1 EP line over the past couple of years, it looks like the only grade that hasn't changed are M1 0w40 and the MC oils. I suspect these are the only grades we get that are still predomiantly PAO based.
 
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