List of A5/B5 Oils?
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Almost any synthetic 30wt. But you don't want any A5/B5 oil, only A5/B5-08 or A5/B5-10. If your engine calls for a 20wt, use a A1/B1-08 or A1/B1-10 20wt.
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Originally Posted By: C4Dave
Are there any conventional oils or blends rated A5/B5?
Not that I have seen. None of Mobil's Super (dino versions) are ACEA, nor is Quaker State Advanced Durability.
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/A5B508.html
Are there any conventional oils or blends rated A5/B5?
Not that I have seen. None of Mobil's Super (dino versions) are ACEA, nor is Quaker State Advanced Durability.
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/A5B508.html
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: C4Dave
Are there any conventional oils or blends rated A5/B5?
Not that I have seen.
Yeah, since A5/B5 is an extended drain spec, it'd be hard for a typical mineral oil to make it.
Then again, some mfgs offer 15w40 oils which meet ACEA A3/B3, and A3/B3 is an extended drain spec as well. And I'm pretty sure these 15w40 oils are mineral, or mostly mineral, so who knows...
Originally Posted By: C4Dave
Are there any conventional oils or blends rated A5/B5?
Not that I have seen.
Yeah, since A5/B5 is an extended drain spec, it'd be hard for a typical mineral oil to make it.
Then again, some mfgs offer 15w40 oils which meet ACEA A3/B3, and A3/B3 is an extended drain spec as well. And I'm pretty sure these 15w40 oils are mineral, or mostly mineral, so who knows...
So if an extended drain period is not involved A5/B5 is really not that important. So instead 3k-5k you still are ok using something like Pennzoil conventional. At 10+ you gotta look for A5/B5.
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
So if an extended drain period is not involved A5/B5 is really not that important. So instead 3k-5k you still are ok using something like Pennzoil conventional. At 10+ you gotta look for A5/B5.
Well, there are other requirements that an oil must meet to qualify for ACEA A5/B5, not just extended drain per se. There are things like limits on evaporative loss, foaming tendencies, high temp deposits, valve train scuff wear, etc.
Look at this doc for the latest oil sequences related to various ACEA specs (2010 version):
http://www.infineum.com/Documents/ACEA/ACEA 2010 Oil Sequences.pdf
So if an extended drain period is not involved A5/B5 is really not that important. So instead 3k-5k you still are ok using something like Pennzoil conventional. At 10+ you gotta look for A5/B5.
Well, there are other requirements that an oil must meet to qualify for ACEA A5/B5, not just extended drain per se. There are things like limits on evaporative loss, foaming tendencies, high temp deposits, valve train scuff wear, etc.
Look at this doc for the latest oil sequences related to various ACEA specs (2010 version):
http://www.infineum.com/Documents/ACEA/ACEA 2010 Oil Sequences.pdf
A5/B5 and A3/B4 call for lower wear than A1/B1, and they all destroy your standard Pennzoil conventional which just meets SN and GF-5. I'm not sure where the extended drain idea came from. Specs show A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5 all require >= TBN of 8 and there's nothing about retention.
As far as wear goes, in a naturally aspirated, non-direct injection, non-Euro engine, most people are likely fine on dino. But when a 1990 Honda specs 7.5k intervals on conventional, you might as well do 10k on A1/B1 or A5/B5 and take the lower wear too.
As far as wear goes, in a naturally aspirated, non-direct injection, non-Euro engine, most people are likely fine on dino. But when a 1990 Honda specs 7.5k intervals on conventional, you might as well do 10k on A1/B1 or A5/B5 and take the lower wear too.
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
I'm not sure where the extended drain idea came from.
It came from ACEA's description of the spec:
Quote:
A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended or use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline engines and car & light van diesel engines designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate (HTHS) viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s. These oils are unsuitable
I'm not sure where the extended drain idea came from.
It came from ACEA's description of the spec:
Quote:
A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended or use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline engines and car & light van diesel engines designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate (HTHS) viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s. These oils are unsuitable
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
I'm not sure where the extended drain idea came from.
It came from ACEA's description of the spec:
Quote:
A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended or use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline engines and car & light van diesel engines designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate (HTHS) viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s. These oils are unsuitable
If you look at the specs, nothing suggests extended drain for any of them. It's likely a requirement from MB, BMW, VW and Porsche.
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
I'm not sure where the extended drain idea came from.
It came from ACEA's description of the spec:
Quote:
A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended or use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline engines and car & light van diesel engines designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate (HTHS) viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s. These oils are unsuitable
If you look at the specs, nothing suggests extended drain for any of them. It's likely a requirement from MB, BMW, VW and Porsche.
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ACEA under A/B spec certanly does list the A5 spec as for Extended use. Take another look vinu
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
If you look at the specs, nothing suggests extended drain for any of them.
Have you studied the exact test requirements? I suspect the tests themselves are designed in a way to determine that the results are achieved over some extended period of time.
For example, the shear stability test using CEC-L-014-93 method is ran over a period of 7 days. That's 168 hours. Now, whether that corresponds to an oil being in service for 168 hours in a typical engine - I have no idea. I'm not an oil testing engineer. I am just wondering whether there is something in the test methodology itself that helps deliver results as if the oil was subject to extended use.
If you look at the specs, nothing suggests extended drain for any of them.
Have you studied the exact test requirements? I suspect the tests themselves are designed in a way to determine that the results are achieved over some extended period of time.
For example, the shear stability test using CEC-L-014-93 method is ran over a period of 7 days. That's 168 hours. Now, whether that corresponds to an oil being in service for 168 hours in a typical engine - I have no idea. I'm not an oil testing engineer. I am just wondering whether there is something in the test methodology itself that helps deliver results as if the oil was subject to extended use.
I looked the lowest common denominator in their requirement list which was TBN of 8. That won't fly with the fuel we have here, but it'd probably do fine everywhere else. I'll admit I was wrong, but only in context.
Yeah, starting TBN is just a small part of the whole extended drain concept. How that TBN is retained over the course of the interval is just as important. It's also important for the oil to not evaporate too quickly and to stay in grade for as long as it needs to.
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
As far as wear goes, in a naturally aspirated, non-direct injection, non-Euro engine, most people are likely fine on dino. But when a 1990 Honda specs 7.5k intervals on conventional, you might as well do 10k on A1/B1 or A5/B5 and take the lower wear too.
Exactly!
As far as wear goes, in a naturally aspirated, non-direct injection, non-Euro engine, most people are likely fine on dino. But when a 1990 Honda specs 7.5k intervals on conventional, you might as well do 10k on A1/B1 or A5/B5 and take the lower wear too.
Exactly!
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
A5/B5 and A3/B4 call for lower wear than A1/B1, and they all destroy your standard Pennzoil conventional which just meets SN and GF-5. I'm not sure where the extended drain idea came from. Specs show A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5 all require >= TBN of 8 and there's nothing about retention.
As far as wear goes, in a naturally aspirated, non-direct injection, non-Euro engine, most people are likely fine on dino. But when a 1990 Honda specs 7.5k intervals on conventional, you might as well do 10k on A1/B1 or A5/B5 and take the lower wear too.
We don't know that any of these specs "destroy" Pennzoil conventional, since Pennzoil conventional was not tested to them and doesn't claim to be.
We do know that Pennzoil conventional performs very well on the drain intervals most of us use.
Your Honda was very optimistically claimed to allow 7.5K changes on any API SJ/SL.
We've had six Hondas, mostly driven under pretty easy conditions, where 7.5K would be accumulated in as little as four months, and I've never run one much beyond 6K on the Grp III oils I normally use.
If I were to contemplate 10K, it would have to be backed up with used oil analysis at shorter intervals, regardless of what specs the oil might claim to meet.
I do have a 6K OCI UOA of Pennzoil Platinum 10w30 coming for our older Accord, so it will be interesting to see what it shows.
Empirical results trump standards based upon test protocols every time.
A5/B5 and A3/B4 call for lower wear than A1/B1, and they all destroy your standard Pennzoil conventional which just meets SN and GF-5. I'm not sure where the extended drain idea came from. Specs show A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5 all require >= TBN of 8 and there's nothing about retention.
As far as wear goes, in a naturally aspirated, non-direct injection, non-Euro engine, most people are likely fine on dino. But when a 1990 Honda specs 7.5k intervals on conventional, you might as well do 10k on A1/B1 or A5/B5 and take the lower wear too.
We don't know that any of these specs "destroy" Pennzoil conventional, since Pennzoil conventional was not tested to them and doesn't claim to be.
We do know that Pennzoil conventional performs very well on the drain intervals most of us use.
Your Honda was very optimistically claimed to allow 7.5K changes on any API SJ/SL.
We've had six Hondas, mostly driven under pretty easy conditions, where 7.5K would be accumulated in as little as four months, and I've never run one much beyond 6K on the Grp III oils I normally use.
If I were to contemplate 10K, it would have to be backed up with used oil analysis at shorter intervals, regardless of what specs the oil might claim to meet.
I do have a 6K OCI UOA of Pennzoil Platinum 10w30 coming for our older Accord, so it will be interesting to see what it shows.
Empirical results trump standards based upon test protocols every time.
The only ones I've seen in stores
Mobil 1 0W-30, 5w30, 10w30
Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30, 10w30
Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 (VERY recent!) so check the bottle
Castrol Edge 5w30 10w30 (both Syntec and Titanium)
NOTE: Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30 is A3/B4 and NOT A5/B5!
Mobil 1 0W-30, 5w30, 10w30
Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30, 10w30
Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 (VERY recent!) so check the bottle
Castrol Edge 5w30 10w30 (both Syntec and Titanium)
NOTE: Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30 is A3/B4 and NOT A5/B5!
Off topic a bit, but is the ACEA spec more substantial than ILSAC for engine wear, piston cleanliness, etc...
Would it be wise to choose an oil based on ACEA specs rather than say a GF-5 spec?
Would it be wise to choose an oil based on ACEA specs rather than say a GF-5 spec?
Originally Posted By: JasonBraswell
Off topic a bit, but is the ACEA spec more substantial than ILSAC for engine wear, piston cleanliness, etc...
Would it be wise to choose an oil based on ACEA specs rather than say a GF-5 spec?
Yes,if it takes the stress of a possibly failed engine away from you.
Off topic a bit, but is the ACEA spec more substantial than ILSAC for engine wear, piston cleanliness, etc...
Would it be wise to choose an oil based on ACEA specs rather than say a GF-5 spec?
Yes,if it takes the stress of a possibly failed engine away from you.
Many Euro manufacturers are able to get the long OCIs by using huge oil pans. My 4.2L V8 carries nearly 10qt and has a 10k OCI from the factory. Some of the BMWs go 15k.
I think my brother's Jetta (2.5 I-5) holds almost 7qt and has a 10k OCI.
I think my brother's Jetta (2.5 I-5) holds almost 7qt and has a 10k OCI.
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