ACEA A3/B3 vrs A5/B5

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6
As Kschachn alludes to above, all ACEA oils are required to pass a shear stability stay-in-grade test, this test is not part of API and one of the reasons I like Euro oils.

My current ride, Nissan X-Trail (aka Rogue) is known to shear oil, so I’m running Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 for just that reason.

However I do agree, if you are comparing two similarly formulated API & ILSAC oils from the same company, you would naturally assume the 10W30 is more shear stable.
My concern is that back in the early 2000s, without any stated requirement for ACEA, a 10W30 strictly in accordance to API only (in this case API SJ) back then might have had HTHS of lower than 2.6 mPas, in this case would it matter or not whether we chose an ACEA A3 or A5 oil anyway? (For a 30wt oil)

I found this API SP licensing document stating some of the requirements, interestingly enough, includes those obsolete/superseded ones from yesteryears.
 

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Messages
2,253
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Seattle-ish, WA
The real question is if you are often starting your engine below -25C/-13F? That's the only real reason to want a 5w or lower winter rating in your 30 grade oil. 10w-XX gives the same pumpability at -20C/-5F.

I live in western WA, if I could buy 20w-30, I would. Instead I use 10w-30. The thinner base stock in 5w, 0w oils flow better at very low temps, but does nothing for you above about 25F and actively hurts since it is is full of modifiers to make it thicken at operating temp. There is no free lunch here - there are trade-offs in running oil designed for extreme cold conditions when you don't actually need it. These shear down and create the problems described above by others. The price you pay for the "lunch" of low-temp pumpability is (usually) a less robust oil with lower HTHS and protection ability, and less-shear stability and premature failure.

An ACEA A3/B3 or better 10w-30 is a mighty fine oil (I run it in about everything- Mobil 1 10w30 HM). I don't understand why you'd want to get away from that grade unless you had extreme cold weather conditions - especially if recommended.

Summer all round on the tropics here so cold cranking is not a concern.

I don't know where you are, but a 15w-30 HDEO sounds like a great idea. Or a really solid 10w-30 with an ACEA A3/B3 or better rating...
 
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6
An ACEA A3/B3 or better 10w-30 is a mighty fine oil (I run it in about everything- Mobil 1 10w30 HM). I don't understand why you'd want to get away from that grade unless you had extreme cold weather conditions - especially if recommended.



I don't know where you are, but a 15w-30 HDEO sounds like a great idea. Or a really solid 10w-30 with an ACEA A3/B3 or better rating...

Because an A3/B4 xW30 is incredible hard to come by where I am; xxW30 or xW30 usually come in A5/B5 flavours only.
So for the past three or four oil changes I have swapped over to a 0W40 or 5W40 (both A3/B4) instead. Thinking about dropping back to the xW30, and wondering if an w30 A5/B5 would be suitable given initially, the car manual has only said “10W30 API SJ” and nothing else.

Tell me if I’m sweating out over nothing at all! Haha.
 

SR5

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5,871
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Down Under
Hey guys, I have an early 2000s naturally aspirated engine that called for 10W30 oil, under service API SJ.

Would an API SN+ oil today, with A3/B4 (0W30) or A5/B5 (5W30) be more suitable for use? As I understand there is no description in the car manual regarding ACEA requirements. Whilst xW30 oils with A5/B5 are very easy to find these days, the same cannot be said for the A3/B4 variants. Would the lower HTHS viscosities in A5/B5 be of concern?

What were the HTHS requirements in API SJ (if any) back in the day if you happen to know.
edit: I have been using a 0W40 with A3/B4 but thinking about using a 30wt oil. Summer all round on the tropics here so cold cranking is not a concern.

My concern is that back in the early 2000s, without any stated requirement for ACEA, a 10W30 strictly in accordance to API only (in this case API SJ) back then might have had HTHS of lower than 2.6 mPas, in this case would it matter or not whether we chose an ACEA A3 or A5 oil anyway? (For a 30wt oil)

I found this API SP licensing document stating some of the requirements, interestingly enough, includes those obsolete/superseded ones from yesteryears

Sorry, what car and engine are we talking about, and how is it used ?

Sure they had some rubbish oils back in the day, before J300 gave a minimum HTHS requirement for each viscosity grade. Not sure of the exact timing, as API history isn’t my thing. However some early 10W40s were low viscosity base stock all jacked up on polymer VII. This lead to 40 grades shearing down too much while also leaving way too much deposits in the engine. All sludge and no protection.

No modern A5 or A3 oil should do this to you.
 
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11,147
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USA
Are these oils 5W20, 5W30, 0W20, 0W30, etc.? Are they a new kind of oil?
I have NEVER seen these numbered oils on the shelves where oil is sold. All I have ever seen is XWXX, XXWXX, etc., on the front of oil containers. :unsure:

Yes, they can be 5w30, 0w20, 0w30, 5w40, and other grades. For example, a 5w30 A5/B5.

The ACEA ratings are just European oil standards, but more stringent than the API standards used in the US. Some versions of PP, M1, and Edge meet the ACEA standards and are listed as such on teh back of the bottle :)
 
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16,531
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Upper Midwest
Do you see ILSAC GF-5 in huge letters on the front?
This topic was the subject of a thread the poster started himself where he admitted he was unwilling to make any effort to comprehend the subject matter. The thread got locked because of the trolling.

 
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16,531
Location
Upper Midwest
Because an A3/B4 xW30 is incredible hard to come by where I am; xxW30 or xW30 usually come in A5/B5 flavours only.
So for the past three or four oil changes I have swapped over to a 0W40 or 5W40 (both A3/B4) instead. Thinking about dropping back to the xW30, and wondering if an w30 A5/B5 would be suitable given initially, the car manual has only said “10W30 API SJ” and nothing else.

Tell me if I’m sweating out over nothing at all! Haha.
Who cares what the grade is as long as it meets the ACEA specification. Grade is irrelevant.
 
Messages
6
Sorry, what car and engine are we talking about, and how is it used ?

Sure they had some rubbish oils back in the day, before J300 gave a minimum HTHS requirement for each viscosity grade. Not sure of the exact timing, as API history isn’t my thing. However some early 10W40s were low viscosity base stock all jacked up on polymer VII. This lead to 40 grades shearing down too much while also leaving way too much deposits in the engine. All sludge and no protection.

No modern A5 or A3 oil should do this to you.
It’s an econobox with an obscure small displacement engine of some Japanese origin, used as a daily driver.

I suppose a modern 30wt ACEA A5 oil would already be superior than an API SJ 30wt oil in pretty much all regards, but I can’t stop being hesitant about this. As deviously mentioned, my readily available top-tier choices of M1 5w30 and PPU 5w30 are available in A5 form only, whereas their equivalent M1 0w40 and PPU 5w40 are both A3, hence what I have settled on using.
 

BlueOvalFitter

Site Donor 2021
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This topic was the subject of a thread the poster started himself where he admitted he was unwilling to make any effort to comprehend the subject matter. The thread got locked because of the trolling.

Members couldn't stay on the subject and kept wandering. :rolleyes:
 
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down in the park
it should be for those that want to work on egines or do maintenance. It's no different than the old way, just replace one set of number by another set. But the "new"way says more about what you're buying and it's suitability.

The SAE grades are still important for winter ratings, neither ACEA, API or Ilsac are concerned with that.
 
Messages
6
Because an A3/B4 xW30 is incredible hard to come by where I am; xxW30 or xW30 usually come in A5/B5 flavours only.
So for the past three or four oil changes I have swapped over to a 0W40 or 5W40 (both A3/B4) instead. Thinking about dropping back to the xW30, and wondering if an w30 A5/B5 would be suitable given initially, the car manual has only said “10W30 API SJ” and nothing else.

Tell me if I’m sweating out over nothing at all! Haha.
Who cares what the grade is as long as it meets the ACEA specification. Grade is irrelevant.
What would the ACEA specification be in this case?
What case.
In MY case. If you haven’t noticed, I said previously the car manual did not state the equivalent ACEA spec.

Are you only interested to read the troll’s posts and argue with him? Dude just ignore him and stop feeding the troll.
 

BlueOvalFitter

Site Donor 2021
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Cajun Country, La.
Yes, they can be 5w30, 0w20, 0w30, 5w40, and other grades. For example, a 5w30 A5/B5.

The ACEA ratings are just European oil standards, but more stringent than the API standards used in the US. Some versions of PP, M1, and Edge meet the ACEA standards and are listed as such on teh back of the bottle :)
Thanks slacktide. You are the first one to explain it in terminology in which I understand. :) (y)
 

Astro14

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Virginia Beach
Hey guys, I have an early 2000s naturally aspirated engine that called for 10W30 oil, under service API SJ.

Would an API SN+ oil today, with A3/B4 (0W30) or A5/B5 (5W30) be more suitable for use? As I understand there is no description in the car manual regarding ACEA requirements. Whilst xW30 oils with A5/B5 are very easy to find these days, the same cannot be said for the A3/B4 variants. Would the lower HTHS viscosities in A5/B5 be of concern?

What were the HTHS requirements in API SJ (if any) back in the day if you happen to know.

edit: I have been using a 0W40 with A3/B4 but thinking about using a 30wt oil. Summer all round on the tropics here so cold cranking is not a concern.
It would help a lot of folks knew where you lived, and what kind of car you were talking about. Your description of your situation (engine, climate, oil required by the manufacturer) is sufficiently vague that an answer isn’t really possible.
 
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