By the way, spell check wasn't working
Liquid moly MoS2 a good add for my Hemi engine?
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
If you wanted a higher level of MoDTC, you could sub in a quart of M1 Racing 0w30 or HPL BAS 5w30. Starting with an oil that contains 80 ppm, blending 4:1 would bring it up to 400-420 ppm, blending 5:1 would bring it up to 350-370 ppm, and you wouldn't have any concerns with it falling out of suspension.
I don't know this for fact but don't racing oils typically contain higher amounts of ZDDP as well? So if you blended in racing oil in any meaningful amounts, you would also be raising the zddp to levels that might not be good for engines with a catalytic converter??
Which is why I'd recommend the BAS 5w30 over the M1 Racing 0w-30. You don't get a dramatic increase in ZDDP and the type of ZDDP is short-chained secondary which is more reactive at a lower temperature and pressure.
Even if you blended an oil with 800 ppm Zn with an oil that has 1800 ppm Zn at a 4:1, it would only raise it to 1000 ppm. The catalytic issue is only a concern if you're burning a lot of oil.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
If you wanted a higher level of MoDTC, you could sub in a quart of M1 Racing 0w30 or HPL BAS 5w30. Starting with an oil that contains 80 ppm, blending 4:1 would bring it up to 400-420 ppm, blending 5:1 would bring it up to 350-370 ppm, and you wouldn't have any concerns with it falling out of suspension.
I don't know this for fact but don't racing oils typically contain higher amounts of ZDDP as well? So if you blended in racing oil in any meaningful amounts, you would also be raising the zddp to levels that might not be good for engines with a catalytic converter??
Which is why I'd recommend the BAS 5w30 over the M1 Racing 0w-30. You don't get a dramatic increase in ZDDP and the type of ZDDP is short-chained secondary which is more reactive at a lower temperature and pressure.
Even if you blended an oil with 800 ppm Zn with an oil that has 1800 ppm Zn at a 4:1, it would only raise it to 1000 ppm. The catalytic issue is only a concern if you're burning a lot of oil.
Originally Posted by Dragon44
Originally Posted by JAG
Quote
What about all the other great studies showing it actually does do something even here on the whiteboard Bob says you can see it plating to metal? There's a lot more positive things than negative things on moly in oil.
I read it and it was like reading a story. There were no references to studies and there was no testing. It seems like you want it to be a good additive. Don't let emotions overpower rational thought.
No I'm just trying to understand because now Im Confused
Theres a boat load of good reviews on here. But now you post a link where half the people think it's a good idea not to use it because it may settle and the other half poke a bunch of holes in what he said and say moly addictive is great. Is what he did even scientific really?
The only poster I was pointing out in that thread was Edward Kollin. He worked at Exxon and saw how MoS2 performed in motor oil with legitimate tests, not UOAs or people using butt dynos or listening to engine sounds or checking MPGs.
Originally Posted by JAG
Quote
What about all the other great studies showing it actually does do something even here on the whiteboard Bob says you can see it plating to metal? There's a lot more positive things than negative things on moly in oil.
I read it and it was like reading a story. There were no references to studies and there was no testing. It seems like you want it to be a good additive. Don't let emotions overpower rational thought.
No I'm just trying to understand because now Im Confused
The only poster I was pointing out in that thread was Edward Kollin. He worked at Exxon and saw how MoS2 performed in motor oil with legitimate tests, not UOAs or people using butt dynos or listening to engine sounds or checking MPGs.
Another good thread:
MolaKule in there ...
downsides of moly
btw, it's a short thread so you're not going to get a headache!
MolaKule in there ...
downsides of moly
btw, it's a short thread so you're not going to get a headache!
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Another good thread:
MolaKule in there ...
downsides of moly
btw, it's a short thread so you're not going to get a headache!
Good find, thanks ðŸ‘
Seems Mola is confirming one of my questions I had in a previous comment on this thread. The industry avgs aren't just some mysterious number pulled out of air but rather reflect what the oil producers feel is the optimal lvls of moly for daily drivers. (more doesn't necessarily mean better??)..if we were all running race engines with no emissions equipment, sure load up on the moly. If I understood him right.
I was also wondering if all that sulfur from the gobs of moly in the crankcase for extended drain intervals could impact acid levels... seems he thinks it [could/would], yes?? So maybe running an oil with a high(er) TBN (and low noack?) would be wise if you're going to load up on the moly??
Another good thread:
MolaKule in there ...
downsides of moly
btw, it's a short thread so you're not going to get a headache!
Good find, thanks ðŸ‘
Seems Mola is confirming one of my questions I had in a previous comment on this thread. The industry avgs aren't just some mysterious number pulled out of air but rather reflect what the oil producers feel is the optimal lvls of moly for daily drivers. (more doesn't necessarily mean better??)..if we were all running race engines with no emissions equipment, sure load up on the moly. If I understood him right.
I was also wondering if all that sulfur from the gobs of moly in the crankcase for extended drain intervals could impact acid levels... seems he thinks it [could/would], yes?? So maybe running an oil with a high(er) TBN (and low noack?) would be wise if you're going to load up on the moly??
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I left some in a clear jar mixed with Supertech conventional, after about a month it settled out and would not mix back by shaking. Not scientific by any means but I wouldn't put it in something that isn't used often.
Originally Posted by Ponchinizo
I left some in a clear jar mixed with Supertech conventional, after about a month it settled out and would not mix back by shaking. Not scientific by any means but I wouldn't put it in something that isn't used often.
Trav had posted pics of MoS2 fallen out of suspension, collected in the bottom of an oil pan he replaced in a car that was not driven frequently. The MoS2 fell out of suspension and didn't mix back in with the oil. As a result I won't use the product.
I left some in a clear jar mixed with Supertech conventional, after about a month it settled out and would not mix back by shaking. Not scientific by any means but I wouldn't put it in something that isn't used often.
Trav had posted pics of MoS2 fallen out of suspension, collected in the bottom of an oil pan he replaced in a car that was not driven frequently. The MoS2 fell out of suspension and didn't mix back in with the oil. As a result I won't use the product.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Ponchinizo
I left some in a clear jar mixed with Supertech conventional, after about a month it settled out and would not mix back by shaking. Not scientific by any means but I wouldn't put it in something that isn't used often.
Trav had posted pics of MoS2 fallen out of suspension, collected in the bottom of an oil pan he replaced in a car that was not driven frequently. The MoS2 fell out of suspension and didn't mix back in with the oil. As a result I won't use the product.
Why when you talk to liquid moly they say this won't happen?
Originally Posted by Ponchinizo
I left some in a clear jar mixed with Supertech conventional, after about a month it settled out and would not mix back by shaking. Not scientific by any means but I wouldn't put it in something that isn't used often.
Trav had posted pics of MoS2 fallen out of suspension, collected in the bottom of an oil pan he replaced in a car that was not driven frequently. The MoS2 fell out of suspension and didn't mix back in with the oil. As a result I won't use the product.
Why when you talk to liquid moly they say this won't happen?
What company would admit something negative about a product they sell? A picture is worth a thousand words, and Trav wasn't the only member reporting this.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
What company would admit something negative about a product they sell? A picture is worth a thousand words, and Trav wasn't the only member reporting this.
Yeah there's alot of conflicting info on here its crazy. A bunch of people did tests and found the opposite. For example he sat a jar of it on a self for a long time and didn't see it settle at all. Idk what to believe on here
What company would admit something negative about a product they sell? A picture is worth a thousand words, and Trav wasn't the only member reporting this.
Yeah there's alot of conflicting info on here its crazy. A bunch of people did tests and found the opposite. For example he sat a jar of it on a self for a long time and didn't see it settle at all. Idk what to believe on here
Originally Posted by Dragon44
Originally Posted by demarpaint
What company would admit something negative about a product they sell? A picture is worth a thousand words, and Trav wasn't the only member reporting this.
Yeah there's alot of conflicting info on here its crazy. A bunch of people did tests and found the opposite. For example he sat a jar of it on a self for a long time and didn't see it settle at all. Idk what to believe on here
I wish I had bookmarked Trav's pictures, that's all I needed to see. They're on the site, finding them that's another story.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
What company would admit something negative about a product they sell? A picture is worth a thousand words, and Trav wasn't the only member reporting this.
Yeah there's alot of conflicting info on here its crazy. A bunch of people did tests and found the opposite. For example he sat a jar of it on a self for a long time and didn't see it settle at all. Idk what to believe on here
I wish I had bookmarked Trav's pictures, that's all I needed to see. They're on the site, finding them that's another story.
wemay
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Dragon44
Originally Posted by demarpaint
What company would admit something negative about a product they sell? A picture is worth a thousand words, and Trav wasn't the only member reporting this.
Yeah there's alot of conflicting info on here its crazy. A bunch of people did tests and found the opposite. For example he sat a jar of it on a self for a long time and didn't see it settle at all. Idk what to believe on here
I wish I had bookmarked Trav's pictures, that's all I needed to see. They're on the site, finding them that's another story.
We always rag on youtube oil 'comparison' tests for not being nearly close to what happens inside an engine and yet you accept MoS2 not mixing because it happened in a........jar?
Originally Posted by Dragon44
Originally Posted by demarpaint
What company would admit something negative about a product they sell? A picture is worth a thousand words, and Trav wasn't the only member reporting this.
Yeah there's alot of conflicting info on here its crazy. A bunch of people did tests and found the opposite. For example he sat a jar of it on a self for a long time and didn't see it settle at all. Idk what to believe on here
I wish I had bookmarked Trav's pictures, that's all I needed to see. They're on the site, finding them that's another story.
We always rag on youtube oil 'comparison' tests for not being nearly close to what happens inside an engine and yet you accept MoS2 not mixing because it happened in a........jar?
Yeah I know. And some people put it in a jar for awhile and it didn't settle at all. so much conflicting info I'm just going to use it because majority of the people are seeing really good results for example better sounding engine better gas mileage ECT. A lot of people swear by it.
Originally Posted by Dragon44
Yeah I know. And some people put it in a jar for awhile and it didn't settle at all. so much conflicting info I'm just going to use it because majority of the people are seeing really good results for example better sounding engine better gas mileage ECT. A lot of people swear by it.
Well, "a lot of people swear by it" is about all you're going to get. Considering none of the additive companies publish actual standardized test results showing efficacy, testimonials are all you will see.
BTW, no individual outside of a laboratory can determine if an additive affects fuel economy, either good or bad. It just isn't possible in the real world. Even if by some method you measure a change, there's no way you can positively attribute it to the additive considering all the variables in that type of driving.
Yeah I know. And some people put it in a jar for awhile and it didn't settle at all. so much conflicting info I'm just going to use it because majority of the people are seeing really good results for example better sounding engine better gas mileage ECT. A lot of people swear by it.
Well, "a lot of people swear by it" is about all you're going to get. Considering none of the additive companies publish actual standardized test results showing efficacy, testimonials are all you will see.
BTW, no individual outside of a laboratory can determine if an additive affects fuel economy, either good or bad. It just isn't possible in the real world. Even if by some method you measure a change, there's no way you can positively attribute it to the additive considering all the variables in that type of driving.
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Dragon44
Originally Posted by demarpaint
What company would admit something negative about a product they sell? A picture is worth a thousand words, and Trav wasn't the only member reporting this.
Yeah there's alot of conflicting info on here its crazy. A bunch of people did tests and found the opposite. For example he sat a jar of it on a self for a long time and didn't see it settle at all. Idk what to believe on here
I wish I had bookmarked Trav's pictures, that's all I needed to see. They're on the site, finding them that's another story.
We always rag on youtube oil 'comparison' tests for not being nearly close to what happens inside an engine and yet you accept MoS2 not mixing because it happened in a........jar?
I'm still using the MOS2 in my Corolla, the jar "experiment" (hardly an experiment given there was no control and it was in the garage, hardly a stable environment) was just to satisfy my curiosity about if it settles out under any conditions. It does settle, but considering I use my car almost every day and a jar in the garage does not equal a crankcase environment it didn't stop me from using it. Although I may not be getting any benefit from it besides warm fuzzies...
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Dragon44
Originally Posted by demarpaint
What company would admit something negative about a product they sell? A picture is worth a thousand words, and Trav wasn't the only member reporting this.
Yeah there's alot of conflicting info on here its crazy. A bunch of people did tests and found the opposite. For example he sat a jar of it on a self for a long time and didn't see it settle at all. Idk what to believe on here
I wish I had bookmarked Trav's pictures, that's all I needed to see. They're on the site, finding them that's another story.
We always rag on youtube oil 'comparison' tests for not being nearly close to what happens inside an engine and yet you accept MoS2 not mixing because it happened in a........jar?
I'm still using the MOS2 in my Corolla, the jar "experiment" (hardly an experiment given there was no control and it was in the garage, hardly a stable environment) was just to satisfy my curiosity about if it settles out under any conditions. It does settle, but considering I use my car almost every day and a jar in the garage does not equal a crankcase environment it didn't stop me from using it. Although I may not be getting any benefit from it besides warm fuzzies...
Here are some pics of my pan drop on my 2001 Toyota Echo with 250,000 kms.
I ran about 2 bottles of MOS2 through it over 4 OCI's (6,000 - 8,000kms each) of daily driving (would sit for a week or two on vacations only).
What I wiped up was kind of like a layer of black sludge. Then that little dip under the drain plug collected some debris/sediment.
Hard to say what it is exactly, but I imagine it is more 250k kms of sludge and deposits than much settled MOS2. You guys are more experienced than me, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it, no fears of it settling in a daily driver.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/07/full-79038-34374-20190628_171607.jpg "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/07/full-79038-34372-20190628_173727.jpg "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/07/full-79038-34373-20190628_180251.jpg "[Linked Image]")
I ran about 2 bottles of MOS2 through it over 4 OCI's (6,000 - 8,000kms each) of daily driving (would sit for a week or two on vacations only).
What I wiped up was kind of like a layer of black sludge. Then that little dip under the drain plug collected some debris/sediment.
Hard to say what it is exactly, but I imagine it is more 250k kms of sludge and deposits than much settled MOS2. You guys are more experienced than me, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it, no fears of it settling in a daily driver.
Originally Posted by mcwilly
Here are some pics of my pan drop on my 2001 Toyota Echo with 250,000 kms.
I ran about 2 bottles of MOS2 through it over 4 OCI's (6,000 - 8,000kms each) of daily driving (would sit for a week or two on vacations only).
What I wiped up was kind of like a layer of black sludge. Then that little dip under the drain plug collected some debris/sediment.
Hard to say what it is exactly, but I imagine it is more 250k kms of sludge and deposits than much settled MOS2. You guys are more experienced than me, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it, no fears of it settling in a daily driver.
What concerns me is the sludge and gritty looking residue. I would not be happy seeing that in something I maintained since new, OTOH with an unknown history it is another story. Are you the original owner?
I'd stop using MoS2. If you want a moly additive use LG Bio-tech Engine Protectant. jmo.
Here are some pics of my pan drop on my 2001 Toyota Echo with 250,000 kms.
I ran about 2 bottles of MOS2 through it over 4 OCI's (6,000 - 8,000kms each) of daily driving (would sit for a week or two on vacations only).
What I wiped up was kind of like a layer of black sludge. Then that little dip under the drain plug collected some debris/sediment.
Hard to say what it is exactly, but I imagine it is more 250k kms of sludge and deposits than much settled MOS2. You guys are more experienced than me, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it, no fears of it settling in a daily driver.
What concerns me is the sludge and gritty looking residue. I would not be happy seeing that in something I maintained since new, OTOH with an unknown history it is another story. Are you the original owner?
I'd stop using MoS2. If you want a moly additive use LG Bio-tech Engine Protectant. jmo.
I've only had it since 210,000 kms. Unknown service history prior to that. I've thrown a little bit of everything in it since I had it. Not currently using MOS2, it doesnt seem to care what is in it and gets pretty bulletproof UOAs (Link).
For an 18 year old beater car I didn't think it was that bad. Just wanted to post a pan of a prior MOS2 user.
For an 18 year old beater car I didn't think it was that bad. Just wanted to post a pan of a prior MOS2 user.
Originally Posted by mcwilly
I've only had it since 210,000 kms. Unknown service history prior to that. I've thrown a little bit of everything in it since I had it. Not currently using MOS2, it doesnt seem to care what is in it and gets pretty bulletproof UOAs (Link).
For an 18 year old beater car I didn't think it was that bad. Just wanted to post a pan of a prior MOS2 user.
Thanks for posting this up. I think it looks pretty good.
I've only had it since 210,000 kms. Unknown service history prior to that. I've thrown a little bit of everything in it since I had it. Not currently using MOS2, it doesnt seem to care what is in it and gets pretty bulletproof UOAs (Link).
For an 18 year old beater car I didn't think it was that bad. Just wanted to post a pan of a prior MOS2 user.
Thanks for posting this up. I think it looks pretty good.
Originally Posted by burla
If it is ticking, start researching lubricaton fixes. FCA had a hand in making an oil formula, they decided to make that formula 240+ ppm moly srt oil. m0s2 s moly in susnesion, MoDTC is moly in most high moly oils, tri nuclear is the moly in most synthetic pcmo's. The fact that tri nuclear ot modtc are the moly used excusively by nearly every oil company and mos2 isn't, should get you to consider what you are doing. I'd look at high moly oils and if you must do an additive use lubegard organic soluble moly.
FCA doesn't dictate formulation. They dictate requirements and the blender decides how to meet the requirement. Shell has traditionally preferred to use molybdenum as a friction modifier in it's formulation. Other FM's popular include boron and titanium.
If it is ticking, start researching lubricaton fixes. FCA had a hand in making an oil formula, they decided to make that formula 240+ ppm moly srt oil. m0s2 s moly in susnesion, MoDTC is moly in most high moly oils, tri nuclear is the moly in most synthetic pcmo's. The fact that tri nuclear ot modtc are the moly used excusively by nearly every oil company and mos2 isn't, should get you to consider what you are doing. I'd look at high moly oils and if you must do an additive use lubegard organic soluble moly.
FCA doesn't dictate formulation. They dictate requirements and the blender decides how to meet the requirement. Shell has traditionally preferred to use molybdenum as a friction modifier in it's formulation. Other FM's popular include boron and titanium.
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