Liqui Moly Oil Additive

So... before anyone rips me a new one I totally admit my results here are strictly anecdotal with no science involved.

I drive a 2005 Dodge Ram 5.7 Hemi in good shape with 208,000 miles on it. The engine burns no oil and has no unusual sounds coming out of it. I'm retired and drive the same routine week after week, local driving, some highway driving to big box stores like Menards and Home Depot and one or two trips a month to visit our daughter and her family 90 miles away. I want to get another year out of the truck before buying a new one.

For a couple of years I averaged 15.6 mpg, that number virtually never changed. A little over three months ago I added a can of regular size (not truck) Liqui Moly to the engine and reset the display. Within a week the mpg average sat at 16.4 and after three months it still sits at 16.4. I don't believe my driving habits have changed, I'm no more easy on the accelerator than before and I still cringe every time I look at the gas gauge.

Something is giving me better mileage, sure it could be something else but I'll probably add another can of Liqui Moly after the next oil change just in case it does make the old truck happier. Your results may vary.
 
LiquiMoly 2009, and other forms of molybdenum have been used in manual lathe and mill gearboxes for a long time. 10, maybe 15 years ago, I had a lathe that had a nasty habit of superimposing gear vibration marks onto the workpiece being cut. This was due to the pressure angle on the gear teeth of this particular lathe. Someone suggested using different lube etc and eventually that lead to trying LiquiMoly. It worked. As I recall, the gearbox held about 2.5 gallons of ISO 60 hydraulic oil and I poured one can of LiquiMoly in there. Within 5 minutes, I could hear the change in how the machine ran. Much quieter... The superimposed gear marks went away too.

Of course, there's a big difference between a lathe gearbox and a gasoline IC engine... Huge difference! But anyhow, I did some experiments with LM 2009 and will probably try it in one of my cars at the next OC. In machine shops, I've used various forms of Moly lubes and they worked well. There are places where Moly should be avoided but, off the top of my head, don't see a problem with modern gas IC engine.

They recommend roughly 300 ml / 5qts oil and that comes out to a 16:1 ratio.

Here it is mixed with M1 (16:1 exactly) then warmed-up in a hot water bath of 180F then, mixed thoroughly with the syringe tip. Next, it sat in a deep freezer at -10 F for 3 days. Upon taking it out, it was all perfectly held in suspension with absolutely no evidence of settling out or caking on the bottom. When warmed back up to 180, it looked no different than the first time I mixed it. No settling whatsoever.

5 family cars... What the heck, I'll give it a shot. Yes, I've seen the videos of people putting this in their lawn mower etc... Fortunately, my car is not powered by a lawnmower engine.

Ray

IMG_20181110_085229.jpg


IMG_20181110_085522.jpg


IMG_20181110_090307.jpg


IMG_20181110_162358.jpg
 
Two or three more days sitting at -10F in the deep freezer. The first picture was taken right out of the freezer, un-shaken or stirred and before condensation had a chance to frost-up the beaker. Surprisingly, even at that cold temperature, the oil is surprisingly fluid. -Not at all as viscous as I would imagine and probably less so than maple syrup at warm household room temperature. The moly still looks very suspended in the solution.

In the second picture, the beaker has warmed-up to garage/shop temperature has not been shaken or stirred. It's about 52F according to the wall thermometer and the oil is downright "liquidy". When holding the beaker edge-wise and looking through the oil, the moly seems evenly dispersed through the volume of fluid. If I were to warm this up, it could be poured out and basically leave the beaker clean but with a film of oil with a light grey tint. There are absolutely no signs of moly caked, crusted or clumped and stuck to the bottom of the beaker.

I wonder why some motor oils have only 20-30ppm and some have 500 to 600 ppm. From a chemical perspective, it's fairly harmless. It's everywhere in the ground, soil etc.

Ray

IMG_20181112_085555.jpg


IMG_20181112_090149.jpg
 
"I wonder why some motor oils have only 20-30ppm and some have 500 to 600 ppm. From a chemical perspective, it's fairly harmless. It's everywhere in the ground, soil etc."




Different forms of moly just like there are different forms of any mineral.

Trinuclear Moly needs less to accomplish the same effect as the moly disulfide.
 
Originally Posted by RayCJ
LiquiMoly 2009, and other forms of molybdenum have been used in manual lathe and mill gearboxes for a long time. 10, maybe 15 years ago, I had a lathe that had a nasty habit of superimposing gear vibration marks onto the workpiece being cut. This was due to the pressure angle on the gear teeth of this particular lathe. Someone suggested using different lube etc and eventually that lead to trying LiquiMoly. It worked. As I recall, the gearbox held about 2.5 gallons of ISO 60 hydraulic oil and I poured one can of LiquiMoly in there. Within 5 minutes, I could hear the change in how the machine ran. Much quieter... The superimposed gear marks went away too...

Ray


Funny you mention this. In my early days in the machine trades I occasionally ran a gear head lathe with worn gears. Any time I tried to take a light finish cut it chopped a beautiful herringbone pattern in to the surface of whatever I was cutting. It was a cool finish... but not what I was after.

Thanks for your tests. I have to wonder how little cans of Liqui Moly travel for months from Germany and then sit on a retailer's shelf possibly for more months with little or no settling. Yet we have to worry about it turning to solidified gunk in the bottom of oil pans after a few weeks of engine inactivity.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
"I wonder why some motor oils have only 20-30ppm and some have 500 to 600 ppm. From a chemical perspective, it's fairly harmless. It's everywhere in the ground, soil etc."




Different forms of moly just like there are different forms of any mineral.

Trinuclear Moly needs less to accomplish the same effect as the moly disulfide.



+1 If i understand it correctly, the trinuc moly converts to mos2 at the point that boundary lubrication comes into play. And you don't have to worry about additive dropout.
 
Originally Posted by spasm3
Originally Posted by PimTac
"I wonder why some motor oils have only 20-30ppm and some have 500 to 600 ppm. From a chemical perspective, it's fairly harmless. It's everywhere in the ground, soil etc."




Different forms of moly just like there are different forms of any mineral.

Trinuclear Moly needs less to accomplish the same effect as the moly disulfide.



+1 If i understand it correctly, the trinuc moly converts to mos2 at the point that boundary lubrication comes into play. And you don't have to worry about additive dropout.


I haven't heard that one. Can anyone verify if this is true? Tri-nuclear moly is just a branched MoDTC which has a completely different molecular structure than MoS2.
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by spasm3
Originally Posted by PimTac
"I wonder why some motor oils have only 20-30ppm and some have 500 to 600 ppm. From a chemical perspective, it's fairly harmless. It's everywhere in the ground, soil etc."




Different forms of moly just like there are different forms of any mineral.

Trinuclear Moly needs less to accomplish the same effect as the moly disulfide.



+1 If i understand it correctly, the trinuc moly converts to mos2 at the point that boundary lubrication comes into play. And you don't have to worry about additive dropout.


I haven't heard that one. Can anyone verify if this is true? Tri-nuclear moly is just a branched MoDTC which has a completely different molecular structure than MoS2.




Article just posted by subierubyroo, look at page 41.
 
Last edited:
Didn't BITOG member Trav discuss a experience with LM moly additive? It wasn't positive.

Correct me if I am wrong.
I have been using LM 2009 product for past ~100k miles on a Lexus v8 (motor now at 223kmi). I use approx half the dose of product instructions (150ml instead of 300ml), used with full synth Valvoline or M1. Have not seen any evidence of moly settling out in any places that I can see (in oil pan, under valve covers, in oil filter, etc).

As for claims it settles out and sticks there, not that I can see. Can it be an issue for other specific engines, maybe, maybe not.

LM 2009 is said to be noticeable after some miles, ~5-10kmi. I never tried to see when the benefits kicked in. I do know that the engine now, after some initial usage (I dunno, maybe 10kmi) starts a bit faster/easier, drives a bit smoother, and sometimes idles at a light very smooth and quiet below 800rpm (it idles in N at 800rpm). Maybe the change has come from the small amount engine wear over all the miles?

Granted, this vehicle cruises the hwy at 75mph near 2000rpm, but I do not have any test showing the moly has coated anything helping out in any way.

So for me, it's either just filler in the oil doing nothing, or, it's actually doing something, but I do not see any evidence of issues from using the product.

I also have MoS2 1.5micron and WS2 0.5micron lab powders, and these definitely settle out in 10w30 synth, but they will re-suspend with some oil turbulence (shake the bottle, etc). These are not used in engines, I use them for other purposes.
 
I used Ceratec first which quieted my car down a bit. Now have the Liqui Moly in there now which has continued that.

I put 5 ozs in the lady's Camry which actually help quiet that typically loud car.
 
Didn't BITOG member Trav discuss a experience with LM moly additive? It wasn't positive.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes that is correct, IIRC Shannow and JHZR2 both did test and had the same results. Solids will drop out of suspension in time no if and or buts.
This stuff was popular when I was a kid, it did seem to have some benefit with very old spec oils but not today.
IMO keep additives out the engine oil especially solids unless you have a specific reason eg lifter tick, sticking rings, a hail Mary pass for a leaky rear seal, etc and know what will help and not.

Teflon, MoS2, Hexagonal boron nitride (aka white graphite), graphite, and any of the other solids advertised have no business in a modern engine.
If someone is convinced they need more moly use Lube Guard engine protector, it has soluble moly.
 
If a vehicle is driven daily... Then it is not a problem. My car gets driven a fair amount every day. A vehicle sitting for weeks or more at a time then it certainly will fall out of solution.

I would like to try the Lubegard blue motor treatment.
 
And if it does settle, doesn't it just re-mix when you fire it up from the oil pump anyway?
 
And if it does settle, doesn't it just re-mix when you fire it up from the oil pump anyway?
In Trav's pictures after he dropped his oil pan, no. He started the car prior to draining the oil and dropping the oil pan, and posted pictures of it settled in the pan. His pictures were proof enough for me. I'm pretty sure the pictures may still be on the site.
 
In Trav's pictures after he dropped his oil pan, no. He started the car prior to draining the oil and dropping the oil pan, and posted pictures of it settled in the pan. His pictures were proof enough for me. I'm pretty sure the pictures may still be on the site.
So many people use this stuff with no drama reported that I've seen. I think it's a bit of BITOG "OH MY GOD ADDITIVES WILL RUIN YOUR ENGINE" hysteria but I have seen the pics you are talking about. I drive my cars daily so not too worried. I've used Ceratec once and MoS2 once with no adverse results.
 
So many people use this stuff with no drama reported that I've seen. I think it's a bit of BITOG "OH MY GOD ADDITIVES WILL RUIN YOUR ENGINE" hysteria but I have seen the pics you are talking about. I drive my cars daily so not too worried. I've used Ceratec once and MoS2 once with no adverse results.
This is true. No drama, just pictures showing that it had fallen out of suspension and collected in the bottom of the oil pan. Others had similar issues. Had the car been sitting a month I would have thought differently because I was using the product. The fact that he started and moved the car shortly before dropping the oil pan indicated to me it was not a product I wanted in my sump anymore. For those who want to boost moly and not have to concern themselves with it staying in suspension look into Biotech Engine Protectant. No worries about that falling out of suspension. If people are happy with the product they should continue using it, for me a picture was worth a thousand words, and posting about it might help someone if they're considering it.
 
Another long time former member here Clevy used it and it never did settle out of his routinely run car. And he had taken the pan off and the valve covers too I believe.

For a vehicle sitting around for periods of time... Yeah I would not recommend using the Liqui Moly mos2.
 
Another long time former member here Clevy used it and it never did settle out of his routinely run car. And he had taken the pan off and the valve covers too I believe.

For a vehicle sitting around for periods of time... Yeah I would not recommend using the Liqui Moly mos2.
I remember that too. In the case of Trav's car it was not driven on a daily basis, but was started up to move it to where he was going to do the work. Which leads me to believe once it falls out of suspension and settles on the bottom of the pan, not all of it is going back into suspension. People who drive their cars everyday probably don't have to concern themselves. I have two vehicles, which depending on the time of the year could sit a month at a time. I don't want MoS2 in those engines.
 
Let’s back up here. Mos2 is not “inferior“ to MoDTC quite the opposite actually. Mos2 is created by MoDTC when the MoDTC is exposed to heat and friction. This formulation of Mos2 is what actually reduces the friction. So why just skip the whole MoDTC step and add Mos2 directly.
 
Back
Top