Liqui Moly, MOS2.....harmful to an engine?

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The previous owner of my 2005 5.3L Chevy truck added a product called 'friction free 3000' to the crankcase at every oil change from 12,000 miles. The shop where he had all his service work done gave me the service history print outs from 12,000 miles to 162,000 miles, the mileage on the truck when I bought it in January of 2014. I did a search and could only come up with a few suspect sites and questionable testimonials. It's sold through Market America and appears to be a pyramid scheme type of marketing strategy. The shop owner sells it and offers it to his customers as an optional additive when he services a customers vehicles...oil changes. After alot of reading, here and a few other sites, I decided to use the LM Ceratec treatment followed with the LM Mos2 in the trucks engine since the 'friction free 3000' didn't seem to do any harm to the engine. I currently have the Ceratec in the engine and plan on running the OLM through one cycle and then start using the Mos2 at every oil change up to 30,000 miles and then rinse and repeat. The truck currently has 168,000 miles and runs quiet and smooth with no oil consumption between changes. I don't recall reading as to whether LM Ceratec or LM Mos2 causes any harm to an engine. Sorry for the long post but my question is....at what point should I expect my engine to start consuming oil, running rough, smoking on start up, sludging, pecking, knocking and eventually seizing? Thanks
 
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Originally Posted By: gman2304
Sorry for the long post but my question is....at what point should I expect my engine to start consuming oil, running rough, smoking on start up, sludging, pecking, knocking and eventually seizing? Thanks
Approximately 500 miles from now you'll experience oil consumption followed by rough running, a puff of smoke on cold startup. The following day, the motor will sludge and then seize the week after that, but not before a period of pecking that turns into knocking, then back to pecking.
 

MolaKule

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Wait a minute; let me see if I am getting this right. You suspect Friction Free 3000 as having no efficacy (cause and effect benefits), but went ahead and put in unneeded, unproven third party additives in your engine, and now expect us to predict any engine problems or failures. ???
 
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I would have run for a year with no additives, so you can get an idea of a baseline, then start adding stuff to see if you notice a difference. As is, you won't be able to know. 99.99% the engine would last just as long with or without additives (and I say this as someone who added MoS2 last weekend, hoping to quiet my drivetrain)
 

gman2304

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I suspect the friction free 3000 done no harm after 162,000 miles, so I decided to use the mos2 which seems to have at least a bigger following than the almost obscure friction free 3000. The last sentence in my OP was partly tongue in cheek but I would seriously like to know if the moly additives will do any harm to an engine or does it only succeed in lightening the mos2 users wallet?
 
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I'm more interested in what you perceive the benefit to be? In other words, why?
Originally Posted By: gman2304
I suspect the friction free 3000 done no harm after 162,000 miles, so I decided to use the mos2 which seems to have at least a bigger following than the almost obscure friction free 3000. The last sentence in my OP was partly tongue in cheek but I would seriously like to know if the moly additives will do any harm to an engine or does it only succeed in lightening the mos2 users wallet?
 
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My Honda fIT 1.6 engine didn't like it. My unfiltered, splash lubed generator liked it two years ago - but this stuff is a TBN killer/ acid generator in the presence of H-O-H. No certified motor oil uses powdered moly. Now ask yourself why. This is another subject discussed ad nauseam. search?
 
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Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm more interested in what you perceive the benefit to be? In other words, why?
Originally Posted By: gman2304
I suspect the friction free 3000 done no harm after 162,000 miles, so I decided to use the mos2 which seems to have at least a bigger following than the almost obscure friction free 3000. The last sentence in my OP was partly tongue in cheek but I would seriously like to know if the moly additives will do any harm to an engine or does it only succeed in lightening the mos2 users wallet?
Read a document www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/MM/857.PDF
 

gman2304

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I've read alot of posts of mos2 being perceived as beneficial. I'm simply asking if it will do harm to an engine. Might it have the placebo effect....no harm no foul.
 
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Originally Posted By: gman2304
Sorry for the long post but my question is....at what point should I expect my engine to start consuming oil, running rough, smoking on start up, sludging, pecking, knocking and eventually seizing? Thanks
I have no information on Friction Free 3000. I have no experience with Liqui-Moly Cera-Tec, although Liqui-Moly is a reputable company and their products tend to work as advertised. As for Liqui-Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction, it will take 500 miles or so for the moly to coat internal surfaces and get inside bearings. There are no 'downsides' to using this MoS2, other than it turns your oil black. On the upside, your internal engine friction should be reduced along with parasitic heat losses. If your vehicle is using oil past the rings, MoS2 tends to reduce this usage, perhaps down to nothing. Wear should be reduced - particularly engine wear at start-up and during the first few minutes of operation, which is when most engine wear occurs. The moly stays in the bearings and does not drain out. Finally, you get some 'limp home' protection if you were to lose oil pressure (useful if you take a bullet in your oil pan). Basically, the product works as advertised. On subsequent oil changes, you might use half a can of Liqui-Moly MoS2 Anti Friction. Using more (the whole can) won't hurt anything, but you may not get any benefit. Any material that does not attach to surfaces simply stays in the oil and drains out at the next oil change.
 
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
My Honda fIT 1.6 engine didn't like it.
How did you decide this? Just curious?
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
this stuff is a TBN killer/ acid generator in the presence of H-O-H.
Total base number (TBN) is a measure of a lubricant's reserve alkalinity. Most motor oils have more than enough reserve built in to handle even extended oil change intervals. And the amount of acidity added to the mix from combustion gasses is likely to be much greater than any acidic properties of MoS2. Did you actually check alkalinity (which would be easy enough to check)? In many military vehicles for which the OCI is very long (basically forever, based on UOA results), MoS2 is widely used. The MoS2 molecule is very stable, up to about 350 deg C. If your engine oil should ever reach that temperature, acidity would be the least of your problems.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
No certified motor oil uses powdered moly. Now ask yourself why.
It turns your oil black? Walmart customers cannot be relied upon to 'shake well before using'? Many (most?) modern motor oils already come with some form of moly in the mix, which may turn into MoS2 under use, so acid formation (or the absence thereof) is probably not a major consideration. If you have any doubts that MoS2 actually works, another user contributed a link to a very nice research article research article from Argonne National Laboratories. There is an extensive body of technical information available on MoS2, so take your pick. MoS2 is widely used in industrial applications, but not popular consumer circles. It turns your oil black.
 
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Have you thought of picking an oil that at least meets or exceeds you car manufacturer's specs and trust it to handle the job without any outside interference? Or, would that violate the BITOG trust?
 
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OK I read it, it wasn't long. Does the article correlate to MoS2 use in an already fully-formulated motor oil? If so, how?
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I'm more interested in what you perceive the benefit to be? In other words, why?
Originally Posted By: gman2304
I suspect the friction free 3000 done no harm after 162,000 miles, so I decided to use the mos2 which seems to have at least a bigger following than the almost obscure friction free 3000. The last sentence in my OP was partly tongue in cheek but I would seriously like to know if the moly additives will do any harm to an engine or does it only succeed in lightening the mos2 users wallet?
Read a document www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/MM/857.PDF
 

gman2304

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Since the PO had used a moly additive for so many miles with apparently no adverse effects, I thought I might continue adding the moly, but from a mfg with a somewhat well known name. I might add that I had never used an oil additive until I bought this truck. As long as I feel it will do no harm, I will probably continue to use it.....if only for grins and giggles.
 
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The 5.3 chevy small block is the workhorse of GM. Tried, true, and tested I have owned numerous cars with the 5.3 and rebuilt a few of these great engines. A well cared for 5.3 will get you 500,000 miles and more. Early small block chevys had problems with timing chain gears made out of plastic. The plastic would break apart after some miles and cause the timing chain to skip a beat. I don't know if they still use plastic in the timing chain gear. Happy motoring!!!!
 
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Originally Posted By: Kool1
The 5.3 chevy small block is the workhorse of GM. Tried, true, and tested I have owned numerous cars with the 5.3 and rebuilt a few of these great engines. A well cared for 5.3 will get you 500,000 miles and more. Early small block chevys had problems with timing chain gears made out of plastic. The plastic would break apart after some miles and cause the timing chain to skip a beat. I don't know if they still use plastic in the timing chain gear. Happy motoring!!!!
You've rebuilt a "few" of these 5.3's and don't know if they have plastic timing gears or not?? And I've NEVER seen or heard of a GM LSx series engine go 500,000 miles... YMMV smile
 
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Originally Posted By: racin4ds
And I've NEVER seen or heard of a GM LSx series engine go 500,000 miles... YMMV smile
I just sold an 04 GMC 3500 van with the 6.0, a virtual copy of the 5.3. Just over 500k miles, never been touched. Oil changed by the OLM, no smoke, no rattle on startup, no consumption, nuttin'. Just because you ain't seen it doesn't mean it ain't happenin'!
 
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Originally Posted By: gman2304
Since the PO had used a moly additive for so many miles
Friction Free 3000 is NOT a molybdenum additive. From their own advertising and other responder comments, this product contains small particles of metal - probably copper, lead and ??.
Originally Posted By: Friction Free 3000 ad
Friction Free™ 3000 Engine Treatment is an engine oil additive lubricant made of soft ductile metals, uniform and spherical in shape, ranging from 5 to 15 microns in size. These soft metals are coupled with special suspension agents to provide a solid boundary lubrication that can provide enhanced engine performance even under extreme conditions.
 

gman2304

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Thanks Dave, I had never heard of it until I bought the truck, assumed it had moly in it.
 
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Originally Posted By: gman2304
Thanks Dave, I had never heard of it until I bought the truck, assumed it had moly in it.
I had never heard of it... period. There are a small group of additives that contain metal particles, typically copper, lead, zinc, tin or some subset of these. Friction Free 3000 appears to be one of them. Another (from downunder) is Pro Ma MBL8 which contains copper and lead particles. Some of these products have been around forever and have a devoted following, if the anecdotes mean anything. I've never used them - really never heard of them except for this forum. This forum needs to have a 'sticky' or other repository for information on additives or more specifically on groups of additives (since many additives seem to be quite similar). Without it, a lot of time is wasted "re-inventing the wheel" in each new thread. It's easy to tell someone "go search the forum" but forum threads tend to go wildly off-topic (this message being an example). In the case of Friction Free 3000 and Pro MA MBL8, you would probably need to know the name of the product to know what to search for. Furthermore, the forum search engine only goes back 1 year. You can also do a Google search ([search string] site:bobistheoilguy.com] and search all messages, but you may get a lot of results. If all you want is a product description or "active ingredients", an archive of some sort would be more useful.
 
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