Lightning strike?

[KD0AXS]

So we were out this evening while a line of rather potent storms rolled through. We got home and found our satellite won't work, it says there's no signal. Then I also noticed a GFCI outlet in the basement was tripped. I reset it, but it just keeps tripping. I'm thinking that maybe the house got struck by lightning. I walked around with a flashlight and don't see any obvious damage, but I'll have to investigate further in the daylight.

What do you guys think? Anyone ever have something like this happen before?

For now, I've shut off the breaker for the circuit with the GFCI that's tripping.

 

[robshelton]

Sure sounds like the lightning got something! GFI's can be killed, power inserter for the satellite dish can fail, the list goes on and on.

 

[larryinnewyork]

If not the house, then a lightning strike nearby.
Talk to your neighbors, see if they have same problem.

Always good to have Surge Protection
1) Whole House
2) Point of Use Protection at Computer, Sterio, TV

With everything having circuit boards, I also have Surge Protectors for:
1) Garage Door Opener
2) Central Vacuum
3) Washer / Dryer
4) Refrigerator

 

[Olas]

Surge protection isn't built in to your Boxes and breakers? Better hardware stops the problem from happening I the first place.

 

[eljefino]

I work in TV and frying satellite LNBs is par for the course for thunderstorms. You can't really perfectly ground & protect something that sensitive. It listens to a solar powered radio 25,000 miles away! You should be able to flirt your way into a free repair though, just tell them you're tired of it and going to cable and this lightning was the last straw, if you don't have the "protection plan."

GFIs are also touchy buggers but the newer ones are "better" if that makes you feel any better about swapping out.

 

[TallPaul]

I once experienced a nearby lightning strike that fried a dimmer switch, a GFCI outlet, and our computer modem.

 

[Kuato]

Sounds like it to me also, and our family has had more than one. Depending on severity you may want to consider the following:

Since the GFCI stays tripped, my first call would be an electrician to make sure the house is safe -- other wiring could be compromised.

Agree with sweet talking the tv company into a repair, especially if the fried part is outside the house.

Check trees in your yard if you have any. Our home in VA lost a tree about 25' from the house, and the lightning took out a bunch of stuff in the house also, even though the house was not hit directly.

If damage is extensive enough (including trees, believe it or not) you can make a homeowner's claim on your insurance.

 

[Hoofhearted]

I live about 15-20 minutes north of you and that same storm knocked out our power for about 8 minutes. The lightning was intense.

 

[SHOZ]

I had a direct hit a few years ago. Knocked out quite a bit of electronics in the house. %1500 insurance claim that is still being hung over my head by other companies when I look for cheaper insurance.

 

[HerrStig]

Thor doesn't have to hit your house, He can zap the power lines or a nearby tree, or induce a spike in your ham antenna feedline and induction will fry the solid state devices. How do you ground your radios? Frying a LNA was probably caused by induction on the LNA coax, especially if the power supply which runs the LNA inside the receiver is still OK. A good ground is very important, and not just a hunk of pipe which ought to be at least 8 feet long, but - as I saw recently - TWO feet long - because the contractor hit a rock and wouldn't take the time to work around it so he just cut it off. You should have a GOOD 8 foot ground on your breaker box and if the dish company put in a ground rod for the dish system, THAT rod should be tied to the panel ground as well. If you Google ""RF Grounding" you'll find a lot of info on communications ground practice, and that's what a dish is, a communications receiver. I use 3/4 inch copper pipe in 10 foot lengths connected to the radial system for my big vertical and sink them using water pressure.

 

[4wheeldog]

We had a close cloud to cloud boomer a few years ago. The only damage was a blown (Melted, actually) capacitor on the circulating pump for hot water from the boiler.

 

[dishdude]

Surges are strange, you never know what damage they'll do.

If it were me, I'd pull the cover on the electrical panel and look for any arcing or burnt wires. Replace the GFI outlet, and if I had Dish, call and add the protection plan and setup a service call. It covers surges and they used to let you add it after a problem occurred if you agreed to keep it for 6 months (I am sure they still do). Another option is check CL for old dishes and LNBs, there are always a ton on there for sale cheap. There is a chance it took your receiver out too.

 

[westom]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
We got home and found our satellite won't work, it says there's no signal. Then I also noticed a GFCI outlet in the basement was tripped.

A surge is an electrical current that hunts for earth ground destructively via appliances. If it was a surge, then you know some appliances that connected a surge to earth. Did so because you did not earth that surge BEFORE it could enter your building.

Your telco CO (connected to buildings all over town) suffers about 100 surges with each storm. How often is your town without phones for four days while they replace that $multi-million computer? Never? Because they install what you could have and need.

A satellite dish signal cable enters at the service entrance. To make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to single point earth ground. That connection would be via a hardwire - no protector required. Then a surge on a dish need not find earth destructively inside.

AC electric needs same. A direct strike to AC wires far down the street is a direct strike incoming to every appliance. Are all damaged? Of course not. This is electricity. Damage means an incoming current occurs simultaneously with an outgoing current. Incoming on AC mains. Outgoing to earth via the dish antenna earth ground. Damage is often on the outgoing path - not on the incoming path as most only assume. But not every appliance has a simultaneous outgoing path.

You also have a damaged GFCI. GFCIs will not reset if damaged - are permanently disconnected from AC mains. So what was an incoming and outgoing path via that GFCI? What appliance was connected to that GFCI? Protection inside every appliances is often more robust. So a surge, too tiny to damage appliances, can also destroy a GFCI or power strip protector. Again, because a homeowner failed to earth that surge BEFORE it could enter.

GFCIs do not claim and obviously cannot protect from surges. How would a millimeters gap in GFCI stop what three miles of sky could not? Again, many never ask [censored] questions. [censored] because honest technical replies include numbers - such as millimeters vs miles.

Same applies to power strip protectors. How many joules does a power strip or UPS claim to absorb? Hundreds? Thousand? What does that do for destructive surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? Why do so many who recommend protectors not bother to read or include numbers?

A direct connection to earth or one via a 'whole house' protector is required on every wire for every incoming cable. That protection is installed for free on telco and cable TV wires. It is required on all dish installations. But if a dish installer has to pay for that ground rod, then he would rather not to earn $15 more.

That proven protection (for about $1 per protected appliance) is not required for and does not exist unless you demand it.

In every case, protection is defined by quality of and connection to earth. A protector (every protector) is only as effective as its earth ground.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Since the GFCI stays tripped, my first call would be an electrician to make sure the house is safe -- other wiring could be compromised.


Sounds like a good idea and that is what I did, but they apparently have no way to check other wiring that is inside of walls unless you want them to open ever junction box and outlet box and inspect them. Costly.

 

[SHOZ]

Pretty common here for lighting to take out the GFCIs. I've got a tree next to the phone line box that has been hit three times that I know of over the last 35 years. I've got a lighting strike protector cross the mains in the CB box.

 

[westom]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Pretty common here for lighting to take out the GFCIs.

Then this paragraph was written for you.
Quote:
In every case, protection is defined by quality of and connection to earth. A protector (every protector) is only as effective as its earth ground.
A properly earthed 'whole house' protector means direct lightning strikes without downstream damage.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Apparently your earthing needs attention. The term 'low impedance' is rarely understood even by electricians. And totally applies to what should be your single point earth ground.

A utility further demonstrates this with good, bad, and ugly (preferred, wrong, and right) solutions:
http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-08.asp

 

[SHOZ]

8' copper clad ground rod right outside the house on the other side of the panel. Most of the house does not have a dedicated ground. Garage does though.

 

[KD0AXS]

Ok, we have Dish coming out to look at the satellite system. The diagnostics in the satellite box indicated a problem with the dish itself, not the box. They let us sign up for the protection plan, so we're covered there. I'll have to pick up a GFCI outlet and replace the one that appears to be bad and go from there. There's not much on this circuit but a couple outlets in the utility room and 3 ceiling lights.


The dish has a ground wire going to the electrical panel,which is completely om the other end of the house. The run from the roof down to the basement and then to the panel is probably around 70 feet. Maybe it would be better to just put a ground rod on that corner of the house and ground the dish to that?

 

[SHOZ]

My wifi internet radio has a ground rod just outside the house where the wire comes in. Don't think the satellite does though.

 

[westom]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
The dish has a ground wire going to the electrical panel,which is completely om the other end of the house. The run from the roof down to the basement and then to the panel is probably around 70 feet. Maybe it would be better to just put a ground rod on that corner of the house and ground the dish to that?

You have described why damage happens. No single point earth ground. A 70 foot wire which means all but no grounding exists (for transistor protection). Adding a ground rod for the other side only makes things worse.

There is no way around those critically important expressions. For example low impedance (ie less than 10 feet). Single point earth ground - all four words have electrical significance. Other relevant terms include equipotential - which cannot exist when wires do not connect low impedance (ie wire without any sharp bends) to a single point earth ground. Not to the panel. To earth ground. Separation of the ground wire from all other non-ground wires is also important.

That Duke energy citation demonstrates same. You have described where a surge was all but invited inside to hunt for earth ground destructively.