lifetime oil filter

[unDummy]

Nothing wrong with these filters. A bunch of other companies offer basically the same thing.
http://www.trufilter.com/trufilter_bro.pdf
http://www.venividivroom.com/venividivroom/filter.htm
http://www.powerlongusa.com/Products.htm
http://www.system1filters.com/oil_filters.htm

I believe that metal mesh filters(cleanable/resusable) have been talked about here a bunch of times.

This are high flow low resistance filters best left for race cars, OR for those who have a REAL filter(bypass) under their hood. But, a real filter with a full flow mesh sounds a little like a Trasko.
http://www.trasko-usa.com/instructions.htm

They look great under the hood if you have a show engine. I've seen many overly painted, polished, powdercoated, and anodized engines, that definitely needed one of those purty filters. Guess what was screwed onto the filter mount? an orange can!

I also vaguely remember a UOA or two WITHOUT any filters, and a useless appendage(full flow filter) thread. Those threads might defend these mesh filters.

 

[Pete C.]

Not trying to decide anything, This type filter has been cussed and discussed numerous times before. It gets a little old after awhile.

Same goes with the other threads I commented on, you can only beat a dead horse for so long...

Like I've stated before, my job title is Manufacturing Engineer, My degree is from the University of Hard Knocks. There ain't no sheepskin on my office wall, just a bunch of old Wix filters.

quote:

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Originally posted by Winston:
Pete,

Why is it that lately all you want to do is decide when threads should die?

I have had to deal with engineers all my life,

---

 

[lewk]

how many times in this forum have I seen repitition? about oil, filters, maintenance... every time I log on. No one poster has offered anything scientific or anecdotal for that matter, just opinion. dont care much about posters who agree or disagree with me. I was hunting for some answers from others who have used this setup or a similar one in the past.reread my original post. steel mesh has merit, so does paper.for the record all filters allow large damaging particles to pass.question is how much and to what extent is the damage. I dont have the time expertise or financial resources to prove or disprove anyones opinion and dont care to.my objective was clearly stated and if I'm not in agreement with u,u,u,u,&u then something is wrong with my logic? grow up!

 

[Jonny Z]

Don't know about that but my life time coffee filter allows things into my coffee that a paper filter wouldn't.

Why chance it when you can pick up a $2 ST at Wally?

 

[Quest]

LOL!

NExt thing you know, someone will come out with a lifetime diaper product...

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Quest:
LOL!

NExt thing you know, someone will come out with a lifetime diaper product...

---

They're working on it, but still haven't solved the sludge build-up problem.

 

[Pete C.]

Uh Oh!!! Here we go again.

 

[LarryL]

I'm testing two such filters. There has been a lot of discussion, but no facts. As soon as I get two kits from Terry, we'll have some answers. It's interesting to read posts about these filters from those that have never tried them. Interesting but not much information. And someone said I was trying to sell one of these filters, wrong. I've met the owners of both companies, but don't work for either. In fact the owner of PurePower wanted his filter back when he discovered I was testing the other filter and mentioned the other filter on this forum. He did not like the flaming he was getting from people that had no experience or data on his filters. He made statements about oil and how filters work that deserved flaming because they were not creditable. Forums are great with positive and negative comments on threads available to everyone. At least Terry is interested in the idea of a ss washable filter beyond the fact that he will get paid to do the analysis. We talked about them yesterday and how they differ from the usual ff filter. Soon we will have some numbers.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by LarryL:
I'm testing two such filters. There has been a lot of discussion, but no facts. As soon as I get two kits from Terry, we'll have some answers.

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With particle counts, I hope.

 

[LarryL]

Yes.

 

[Winston]

Without repitition the forum would be dead. New people join, they have new opinions and new facts to share. People ask the same question that was asked a year ago and get completely different answers from completely different people.

 

[Gary Allan]

You're right, Winston. It's not like everyone can walk in a pick up where the board is through osmosis

Pete: Your input is valued here ..but it's not like you're compelled to endure the endless redundant posts and questions.

Relax ..enhance your calm ..this is supposed to be fun ..even if it sounds abrasive from time to time.

 

[CBDFrontier06]

If it weren't for the fact that you have to use a 'solvent' to clean them, I would have thought it was to aid in environmental issues, similar to cartridge-type filters being used on some newer cars like the Mazda 3 and 6. Less crap going to the landfill, but now you have to dispose of the used solvent.

 

[Louie's gone fishing]

Why would you clean the filter with anything other than soap and water. Just do it in a pan, use a brush and dump the used water in with your used oil. I like the fact that you can look at the filter element, before you clean it. I use a little tiny bit of carb cleaner with the brush before I rinse it, and then blow dry everything. It's more work than a throw-away filter, but it produces less waste.

 

[Louie's gone fishing]

Isn't the micron rating of 35 for the cleanable filters a little different than say a 20 micron rating for a throw-away filter. I though the rating on the cleanable filters said that they attempted to make every hole that size, and the rating for a throwaway filter said it's an average rating because of the nature of the media. I think there may be some differences in how these filters work, and ratings for one type of filter might not work as well on the other filter. I'm just asking, so no flames, please. I hate that, just disagree and write something useful. I think some get their nose out of joint when you poke at 'common knowledge', with a question. And who knows where common knowledge comes from?

Here's an example. I had a Falcon and ran it from the mid 60's to the mid 90's on a Frantz filter. The only oil change it got was the makeup oil. The oil filter was replace with an adaptor that just returned the oil, no full flow filter. The car is still around, and the new owner is doing the same. I've had people tell me all sorts of bad things about the filter and that I was not telling the truth. They said the paper would disolve. I did not have the heart to tell them I had on on the fuel line, too. I sent the oil to a lab in the 80's with good results, except the lab said I made an error on the 'mileage on the oil' part of the form.

I think the answer to my oil needs is going to be a cleanable full flow filter and a TP filter. I do my own changes and I'm willing to change the tp filter. I think it needs changing a bit too often but that's the nature of the filter. It fills up because it's doing a good job, but at least the replacement elements are cheap and available everywhere. If you don't think it's a good solution you should never try it. People that have the answer before they try something are usually right.

 

[lewk]

ekpolk
should have been more discerning with my response. you are right on and I did get a great deal of info from your post.

 

[ekpolk]

Lewk: All is cool -- an interesting thread and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes.

LGF: A couple thoughts. First, I think we really need more data so that we can tell how much difference there is between FF filters that "only" filter down to, for example, 20 microns, and the "high performance" models that advertise better (e.g. K&N, M1, etc.). Second, it's a very different game when you add a bypass filter to the "oil cleaning system." I had toyed with installing one (and still might at some point), but both because of my UOA/PC results, and because the G35's engine room is pretty tight, I've not done so for now.

I think it's clear that my one data point (and it's just that) indicated that I'm getting filtration better than you'd expect from a 35 micron filter. But what does that really mean? Will my engine live longer than it would with a "lesser" filter? Would it have generated larger particles at all? I dunno. My car is two years old; your Falcon has survived three decades -- that's hard to argue with.

I too plan to do some filter experimentation, but not with a 35 micron model (unless Lewk gets some really surprising results). On my next OCI, I'll try an M1, which supposedly filters finer than the K&N (but w/ more restrictive flow), and we'll see if the PCs or wear differ significantly (will be same type of oil, green GC). At present, though, I have another GC-plus-K&N combo in service, and will test it too. Again, it will be interesting to see where all this goes.

 

[Gary Allan]

I think it's like smoking or whatever. The finer the filter the less impact abrasives will have on your engine (duh!) ..but there's no real way to say what the impact of abrasives are in real world life expectancies of engines. That is, suppose half the filtration only results in a slightly less sound engine in the 250k-300k range ...assuming it's otherwise maintained??

This is the stuff that we don't know. So, although the mesh, reusable, filter is not as good as disposables, how much is it really going to hurt your engine

How much is extremely fine filtration going to extend your engine's life

It may be the difference between SPF 50 and SPF 30 over a lifetime.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
I think it's like smoking or whatever. The finer the filter the less impact abrasives will have on your engine (duh!) ..but there's no real way to say what the impact of abrasives are in real world life expectancies of engines. That is, suppose half the filtration only results in a slightly less sound engine in the 250k-300k range ...assuming it's otherwise maintained??

This is the stuff that we don't know. So, although the mesh, reusable, filter is not as good as disposables, how much is it really going to hurt your engine

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Someplace I have seen a study that corrolated size of contaminants to engine wear. It didn't give an engine life estimate but did report how much metal was lost in some enegine parts like bearings and piston rings. Is that buried someplace back in the anals (or is that annals?) of BITOG?

IIRC, Ford was involved with the study.

Edit:
Or was it GMC?
http://www.aeromag.net/images/how/SAE.pdf

 

[Winston]

quote:

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By EK; I certainly don't like the idea of a filter that can only pick up particles at or above 35 microns.

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That is NOT what the filter is rated for. The absolute max size particle that will fit through is 35 microns. That means that nothing larger than 35 microns will get through it in a single pass. It will filter smaller particles too. The pore size of the filter fabric is not equal. There will be small pores and large pores. The largest pore is 35 microns. There are smaller pores too. I don't know how well it will filter smaller particle without seeing some test results. However, it will definately filter particles smaller than 35 micron.

Here are some specifications for wire mesh filter fabric.

Wire Mesh Filter Fabric

Note that the "absolute" opening size is .0005 inches (approx 12 microns) while the "nominal" opening size is .0002 (approx 5 microns).

[ June 28, 2006, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Winston ]