Lifetime air filters?

[dkryan]

I was listening to an auto related radio program on AM this evening whereby callers ask mechanical related questions of the host (ASE certified and well-respected for his knowledge around these parts).

One caller said he had a 2007 Ford Focus that "featured" a lifetime air filter. The caller wanted to know how "real" that was, by definition. The host said his Suburban had the same set up, in that it has a restrictor gauge that can be checked to determine how dirty the filter really is.

His point was that it is not a lifetime filter. He said it was changeable, but to do so on that Focus and his Suburban would require about 1.5 hours to get to it, including the use of a lift, removal of the wheel/tire, as well as the inner fender, etc. In short, it was buried where any DIY'er would be discouraged to try and change it.

How nice of Detroit to continue to assist the car owner by constantly reducing the "maintenance" requirements of their new cars!

 

[Saturn_Fan]

You gotta be kidding me. This cutting out of DIY items on newer cars is getting crazy. Bad enough I can't do the spark plugs on one of my vehicles because of the three hour process. Now stuff like this.

 

[dkryan]

Yep, I thought it was bad enough when Ford (and probably others) eliminated the transmission dipstick from under the hood on alot of models. Supposedly, they were protecting the consumer by preventing them from overfilling the transmission or some such nonsense.

Who'd trust their air filter for 50k to 100k without changing it?

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: dkryan
Who'd trust their air filter for 50k to 100k without changing it?


I certainly would not. The mere thought of it makes me cringe. I wonder if some of this has to do with planned obsolescence by car makers. I mean a disposable car is a double edged sword. Less sales if the cars run forever and people keep them for 10+ years vs. bad reputation from cars not going that long. Hard to pin point the motives behind no dipsticks, lifetime filters, etc.

A quick look at the Ford recommended maintenance interval for a 2005 Ford Focus always has the phrase, "Replace air filter, (except for Focus") Here is the link http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO5FOC/~MUS~LEN/41/05frdmg4e.pdf

Sonic Dry Clean is also offering an air filter element that is warranted after cleaning for up to the operating life cycle of the engine when used in conjunction with the air filter cleaning system counterpart, according to John Hockin of Sonic Dry Clean.

I wonder if the lifetime filter incorporates what I cut and pasted from a web site I was looking at regarding this matter...

"The new product line incorporates the company's established computer-controlled air, vacuum, vibration and rotation cleaning process with the addition of the continuous air technology system. By combining the two products Sonic Dry Clean is seeking to offer a more cost effective and efficient air filter dry cleaning system for the heavy equipment industry".

 

[truckmann]

Volant has a filter they are calling the Powercore that they are billing as a 100,000 mile filter with no cleaning needed. Not something I will be jumping on the band wagon for.

 

[Mike_dup1]

Quote:
Suburban would require about 1.5 hours to get to it, including the use of a lift, removal of the wheel/tire, as well as the inner fender, etc.


Thats is a not right about a suburban. Its real easy to R&R the air filter, 4 screws hold it down and all you need to know how to do it open the hood. As for the Focus, can't say but it possible. Know someone with one of them and she's disappointed with it, lots of little problems and everyone but the dealer tells here its a POS car.

 

[Dyoel182]

Originally Posted By: Mike_dup1
As for the Focus, can't say but it possible. Know someone with one of them and she's disappointed with it, lots of little problems and everyone but the dealer tells here its a POS car.



Yep its sad that the Focus didnt make the next generation leap with the Mazda 3 which people love and love working on.

 

[badtlc]

Those "lifetime" filters on the 2007 ford focus are supposed to be pretty solid. Check out their forums to learn more. I think people were getting well over 50,000 miles out of them. They are replaceable but its like $130 for a new one and rather labor intensive.

On the flip side, many focus owners installed after market intakes just so they could have a maintainable filter.

I'm not sure, but they might have switched back to normal air filters for the 2008s.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Those "lifetime" filters on the 2007 ford focus are supposed to be pretty solid. Check out their forums to learn more. I think people were getting well over 50,000 miles out of them. They are replaceable but its like $130 for a new one and rather labor intensive.

On the flip side, many focus owners installed after market intakes just so they could have a maintainable filter.

I'm not sure, but they might have switched back to normal air filters for the 2008s.


Perhaps the technology is solid, but I still can't wrap my mind around the philosophy. Replacing an air filter is inexpensive and anyone with zero experience on cars can do it. Seriously, I would say that someone can learn to put an air filter in at age 5 with proper instruction from parents.

Okay, say I buy into the lifetime anything on a vehicle. Why does that always seem to preclude the ability change an item without three hours of labor? Come full circle and make something lifetime AND easy to replace (an oxymoron I know).

 

[tom slick]

part of the "lifetime" air filter idea is that it doesn't have to be located where it can be conveniently serviced. that allows it to be engineered where it can promote better performance or fit into a different package shape.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
part of the "lifetime" air filter idea is that it doesn't have to be located where it can be conveniently serviced. that allows it to be engineered where it can promote better performance or fit into a different package shape.


Good point Tom Slick, but I want both.

But seriously, what is "lifetime"? To my father in-law lifetime vehicle for him is 100,000 miles, for me 200,000 miles, and for others even 500,000. I couldn't find through research how many miles Ford considers lifetime on these filters. That missing variable might help a little.

 

[badtlc]

I think I read a whle back ford considered 100k miles as "lifetime." I saw a pic of one of these filters somewhere and they are rather big/deep filters. I gotta see if I can find it again. It definitely doesn't look like your average panel filter.

 

[The Critic]

I think I posted an SAE study on the Focus's lifetime air filter several years ago. Bench/field testing showed that 150,000 miles, sometimes as long as 190,000 miles was fine for the filter. A replacement unit costed a little over $200 at the time.

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
You gotta be kidding me. This cutting out of DIY items on newer cars is getting crazy. Bad enough I can't do the spark plugs on one of my vehicles because of the three hour process. Now stuff like this.

You can do plugs on most Honda V6s in about 1/2 hr.

 

[benjamming]

What was the criteria for determining that the air filter was bad? Did oil analysis accompany this study?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
What was the criteria for determining that the air filter was bad? Did oil analysis accompany this study?

Correction: actually it was 150,000 miles.

Here was the study:


http://www.visteon.com/utils/whitepapers/2005_01_1139.pdf

 

[benjamming]

Thank you sir.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
I think I posted an SAE study on the Focus's lifetime air filter several years ago. Bench/field testing showed that 150,000 miles, sometimes as long as 190,000 miles was fine for the filter. A replacement unit costed a little over $200 at the time.

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
You gotta be kidding me. This cutting out of DIY items on newer cars is getting crazy. Bad enough I can't do the spark plugs on one of my vehicles because of the three hour process. Now stuff like this.

You can do plugs on most Honda V6s in about 1/2 hr.


Hmm. a 1/2 hour maybe in expert hands. The way the 3.5 is oriented in the VUE drive bay leaves the back three spark plugs very close to the firewall area. There are some indentations on the firewall back there, but I would definitely have to use a wobbly socket maybe. Tips?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I think I posted an SAE study on the Focus's lifetime air filter several years ago. Bench/field testing showed that 150,000 miles, sometimes as long as 190,000 miles was fine for the filter. A replacement unit costed a little over $200 at the time.

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
You gotta be kidding me. This cutting out of DIY items on newer cars is getting crazy. Bad enough I can't do the spark plugs on one of my vehicles because of the three hour process. Now stuff like this.

You can do plugs on most Honda V6s in about 1/2 hr.


Hmm. a 1/2 hour maybe in expert hands. The way the 3.5 is oriented in the VUE drive bay leaves the back three spark plugs very close to the firewall area. There are some indentations on the firewall back there, but I would definitely have to use a wobbly socket maybe. Tips?

Haven't done one, but I know that it's 0.5 book rate for the Honda 3.0 V6. I'll have to check Mitchell again the next time that I have access to it.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I think I posted an SAE study on the Focus's lifetime air filter several years ago. Bench/field testing showed that 150,000 miles, sometimes as long as 190,000 miles was fine for the filter. A replacement unit costed a little over $200 at the time.

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
You gotta be kidding me. This cutting out of DIY items on newer cars is getting crazy. Bad enough I can't do the spark plugs on one of my vehicles because of the three hour process. Now stuff like this.

You can do plugs on most Honda V6s in about 1/2 hr.


Hmm. a 1/2 hour maybe in expert hands. The way the 3.5 is oriented in the VUE drive bay leaves the back three spark plugs very close to the firewall area. There are some indentations on the firewall back there, but I would definitely have to use a wobbly socket maybe. Tips?

Haven't done one, but I know that it's 0.5 book rate for the Honda 3.0 V6. I'll have to check Mitchell again the next time that I have access to it.


Thanks! Much appreciated man.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I think I posted an SAE study on the Focus's lifetime air filter several years ago. Bench/field testing showed that 150,000 miles, sometimes as long as 190,000 miles was fine for the filter. A replacement unit costed a little over $200 at the time.

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
You gotta be kidding me. This cutting out of DIY items on newer cars is getting crazy. Bad enough I can't do the spark plugs on one of my vehicles because of the three hour process. Now stuff like this.

You can do plugs on most Honda V6s in about 1/2 hr.


Hmm. a 1/2 hour maybe in expert hands. The way the 3.5 is oriented in the VUE drive bay leaves the back three spark plugs very close to the firewall area. There are some indentations on the firewall back there, but I would definitely have to use a wobbly socket maybe. Tips?

Haven't done one, but I know that it's 0.5 book rate for the Honda 3.0 V6. I'll have to check Mitchell again the next time that I have access to it.


Thanks! Much appreciated man.

Might be a while though before I get a chance to go back to my hometown, but I'll PM you.