Lexus RZ, first EV for the brand DOA

Ron Baron runs an investment firm and surely knows how to run a car company better than the clowns at Toyota.
I think betting against the million ton elephant isn't a smart business move. The playbook that Tesla adopted was written by the folks at Toyota. If they publicly appear like they lost the objective, internally they are assessing, strategizing, and implementing in real time their successful comeback story.

And if this sounds like a fan rant, just ask Sandy Munro of Lean Designs. His public comments are inline with the above.
 
The battery in this I believe should be Panosonic Units, but i cant confirm this. BZ4x FWD units have Pano units (which are considered better quality), while the AWD units are shipping with CATL units which are inferior as the CATL battery has much worse low temperature cycle degradation due to dendritic growth than the Panasonic battery.
I looked into batteries before going EV6. I have the most personal experience with cylindrical cells, but what I've seen and read about SK pouch, makes me comfortable with it.
 
Baron likely owns Tesla in his fund portfolios so it’s natural he would speak highly of them.

Yes, he has plenty.
Even though Tesla shares have fallen 50% since the start of the year amid the wider market selloff, Baron has a stunning 45% of one of his largest funds invested in the carmaker's stock, up from 41% in early 2021
 
That is the furthest thing from the truth if we are talking about the same TMC. The issue here was Toyotas internal predictions were not as aggressive as they originally planned. They believed the market would only start to get hot and heavy towards the latter point of this decade, early next and in the meantime the idea of transitory HEV/PHEV would be their golden ticket (everyone who was caught flat footed were either hobbling together HEV/PHEV systems or jumping into EVs). If you see their current launches, which was decided awhile ago, most products are launching with some sort of electrification.
Basically Toyota is wrong and their 1st effort is lacking in EV capabilities.
 
Translated = it’s everyone’s dream including Tesla to sell as many vehicles as Toyota.
Good luck to them all, competition is great!

(Ps who cares what a billionaire investor thinks about a company)
Plenty of people care. People that are investors and hope to have a comfortable retirement. Like me. At this point I have no desire to own an EV although for the kind of driving I do it would make a lot of sense. And I won't rule out a future purchase.
My interest in the success of Tesla is purely selfish.

Baron's implication is that Toyota is squandering an opportunity to leverage their position as the largest seller of vehicles now by dedicating some resources towards developing a competitive EV. Resources that most other automakers don't have. Like I said, every month that other automakers are wishy washy and sitting on the fence regarding their commitment to capturing a growing market share means that Tesla is still moving forward and unencumbered by trying to maintain an existing line of ICE vehicles.
 
Plenty of people care. People that are investors and hope to have a comfortable retirement. Like me. At this point I have no desire to own an EV although for the kind of driving I do it would make a lot of sense. And I won't rule out a future purchase.
My interest in the success of Tesla is purely selfish.

Baron's implication is that Toyota is squandering an opportunity to leverage their position as the largest seller of vehicles now by dedicating some resources towards developing a competitive EV. Resources that most other automakers don't have. Like I said, every month that other automakers are wishy washy and sitting on the fence regarding their commitment to capturing a growing market share means that Tesla is still moving forward and unencumbered by trying to maintain an existing line of ICE vehicles.
(important to know just discussing)
I think it would be insane to take the thought of a billionaire shaking his head as an investment strategy which is what the post is about and that is my reference to "who cares" That billionaire did not build Toyota into the number 1 selling vehicle name in the world.

As far as Barrons I enjoy reading it, it's good to get a cross section of thoughts but if they were always right everyone would be rich just by reading Barrons right?

Now, we then get to your "investment perspective" and that is 100% ok, your perspective is how someone hits it big into a comfortable retirement so I would never and Im not discounting your feelings, after all, part of the population is always right and just as many and MANY more wrong.
I side more on the side of caution with the EV market share. You firmly believe the current EV technology is going to take over ICE or significantly eat into ICE vehicles by just one company, Tesla. I think people are so wrong on this to the degree that I cant .... well, cant put into words but whatever. There are thousands of companies to make money on, Tesla is risky to me. How can it not be? Commands 4% of the USA market and all its competitors will be turning out the same product. There will be so many EVs out there and who knows how much of the public wants them in their current form?

That is good if you are right. Im not convinced yet and/or dont think it's as simple as that picking one company that only produces EVs selling at a multiple of the worth of all the leading cars companies combined, yet they dont even hold or maybe hold now, 4% of the USA vehicle market share.
Every time I see a Tesla to me, looks like a generic economy car and dozens upon dozens of new models will be hitting showroom floors soon and some from true luxury manufacturers much more experienced in delivering what people want.
I think and wow I can be wrong, that much like any new product in a matter of a few years there will be an oversupply of EVs that will have to be heavily discounted much like Tesla was just forced into. Its a car with a battery, more simple to build then the ICE vehicle.
 
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The lexus claimed efficiency (3.4 M/kwh- 65.6KWH and 225 mile claim) is pretty bad to start with, well behind on range

Im eager to see what it does in the real world. No ones claims match reality but tesla is still in the lead efficiency wise by a significant margin.

The big boys cant match teslas in this metric, although I think they are better coach builders.

This is from the latest carwow range test driving the models on the same route at the same time using the same settings.

The MB and BMW are comparatively huge money.




Screenshot 2023-02-09 at 10.39.52 AM.png
 
Ive dealt with so many stupid rich people its not even funny, and absolutely your quote is spot on.
While I’ve not known a ton of wealthy people, I’ve dealt with enough to come up with three categories:

- people who lucked into something and got wealthy from it. No special skills or knowledge, not necessarily “smart” or “competent”

- others who are very skilled and experienced in a specific area of expertise. Otherwise no special skills

- very smart, competent people in numerous areas of life. Wealthy for good reason and would succeed no matter what they did.

The last group does not seem to be the majority.
 
While I’ve not known a ton of wealthy people, I’ve dealt with enough to come up with three categories:

- people who lucked into something and got wealthy from it. No special skills or knowledge, not necessarily “smart” or “competent”

- others who are very skilled and experienced in a specific area of expertise. Otherwise no special skills

- very smart, competent people in numerous areas of life. Wealthy for good reason and would succeed no matter what they did.

The last group does not seem to be the majority.
All people Ive met are specialists. Some have a couple of areas. Some just one. This is why I hire a lot of stuff out. I know I don't know what Im doing in many areas, so I pay someone who does. Its the stupid ones who try to DIY that end up dead or worse, I've found.
 
The lexus claimed efficiency (3.4 M/kwh- 65.6KWH and 225 mile claim) is pretty bad to start with, well behind on range

Im eager to see what it does in the real world. No ones claims match reality but tesla is still in the lead efficiency wise by a significant margin.

The big boys cant match teslas in this metric, although I think they are better coach builders.

This is from the latest carwow range test driving the models on the same route at the same time using the same settings.

The MB and BMW are comparatively huge money.




View attachment 139595
Hyundai and Kia are beating Tesla. The reason noone has for so long, is Tesla designed their vehicles really well regarding aero, also, tires matter. Thats why they all look the same. Now that EV is a thing, many brands are going to follow. The Ioniq 6 is an example of a slicker car with more range.
 
Hyundai and Kia are beating Tesla. The reason noone has for so long, is Tesla designed their vehicles really well regarding aero, also, tires matter. Thats why they all look the same. Now that EV is a thing, many brands are going to follow. The Ioniq 6 is an example of a slicker car with more range.

Have we seen a real world comparison test with an Ionic 6 yet?

I think it's pretty slick, but many dont.

Does it use the same battery as the EV6?



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Yes, but at least in the case of the BMW (I've not driven the Benz) they are also much nicer cars.

Also, the i4 M50 is very close in price to the Model Y Performance to the point where you might as well say they are the same price.

I agree much nicer The Benz is much nicer as well.

The carwow test used an IX.

Unfortunately the existing Bimmers are dead men walking when it comes to the battery.
Any trip that requires repeated charging will get throttled down severely to protect the pack.

If I go for a bimmer I'm waiting till their cylindrical are out in the Neu Klasse.
 
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We know it's cD, which is lower than Tesla. EPA rates it further range.

I know about the CD - they definitely cut the trunk area to get that rating but its slick for sure.
Im curious how much storage space it has, but I can go look that up.
EPA range doesn't mean it gets that - hence we need to see a real world test and then a 1K trip.
 
(important to know just discussing)
I think it would be insane to take the thought of a billionaire shaking his head as an investment strategy which is what the post is about and that is my reference to "who cares" That billionaire did not build Toyota into the number 1 selling vehicle name in the world.
I certainly wasn't suggesting taking Baron's reaction to Toyota's EV strategy as investment strategy.
Toyota's achievement of the number 1 selling vehicle name in the world happened over the last 50 years or so. And for a lot of good reasons. But we are talking about who is going to be the dominating manufacturer in the EV category and Toyota may be making a mistake by not getting in in a big way now.

For example, in California the Tesla Model 3 is the best selling car. Period. It outsold the very popular ICE Camry. Yes that is not a worldwide number but the California car market isn't small potatoes. 5 years from now Toyota may be wishing that they took the EV market more seriously back in the early 2020's.

But don't take any investment advice from me. I'm not a licensed fiduciary. I'm just one of these guys

- people who lucked into something and got wealthy from it. No special skills or knowledge, not necessarily “smart” or “competent”

- others who are very skilled and experienced in a specific area of expertise. Otherwise no special skills

- very smart, competent people in numerous areas of life. Wealthy for good reason and would succeed no matter what they did.
 
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