Level 1 Home Charging

[SC Maintenance]

This higher voltage means the current is lower for the same amount of power, (I = P / V) and the use of thicker wires and dedicated circuits reduces resistance and heat, resulting in a higher grid-to-battery efficiency.

like running cooling fans to keep the battery cool during the charging process.) In the slower level 1 charging scenario you run that equipment much longer

Thank you for your replies. You actually sort of answered it with some additional research.

Its the ancillary charge control systems takes up a larger amount of the power as a percentage of the total load. For example - if the charge control electronics pull 500W then that is roughly 30% of a 120V system and only 7% of a 240V system.

So the actual battery charge loss is less with a lower charge current - which I already knew and hence my confusion, but the vehicle charge system and monitors eat up a bunch of your power during the process.

Still a very viable option if you have the time.

 

[Torrid]

I don't have an electric vehicle but.... If I had one, I would like to pre- heat the car before leaving the house in cold weather. I don't think this would be practical with only level 1.

For me Level 1 won't cut it. I drive 80 miles round trip and having two Teslas it's far from an option these days. Level 1 was fine when it was just my wife driving since she doesn't have such a commute, but I'd constantly be dropping in range charging on level 1 and the closest fast charger to me is 30 miles away.

 

[y_p_w]

Level 2 charging is more efficient than Level 1 because it uses a higher voltage (240V vs. 120V), which allows for faster charging with less energy loss. This higher voltage means the current is lower for the same amount of power, (I = P / V) and the use of thicker wires and dedicated circuits reduces resistance and heat, resulting in a higher grid-to-battery efficiency.

I'm sure the electrical engineers around here can offer a much better explanation; this is my best shot. Anything more is above my pay grade.

Don't ask me about power electronics. My primary job is pushing ones and zeros.

 

[y_p_w]

The so-called L1 charger that came with my Prius Prime is 240V tolerant--- it's just got a 120V plug on it for the US market. Technically the charger's just a cord with a relay box and couple sensors-- the AC/DC converter is within the car.

I have a 240v male to 120v female adapter so I can use the charger as a poor man's L2.

If yours supports this, you could have an adapter at the house end of your extension cord and do a low amps charge that's still 2x as fast.

Any kind of Level 1 or Level 2 connection is just a pass through of the voltage coming from the source. But it may be current limited, although that's supposed to be the job of the vehicles charging circuits to control the current. The protection circuits are supposed to cut it off if it senses something is amiss.

I'm sure someone has tried all manner of different voltages with the Tesla Mobile Connector to see how it handled it. The modular plugs are supposed to specify what voltage is expected. I'd be curious to see what might happen if someone took a US NEMA 5-15 plug and inserted it into a 240V outlet using an adapter. I'm thinking it will probably reject it if it senses that's it's ungrounded or if it's 240 V.

 

[GrumpyCat]

I'm sure someone has tried all manner of different voltages with the Tesla Mobile Connector to see how it handled it. The modular plugs are supposed to specify what voltage is expected. I'd be curious to see what might happen if someone took a US NEMA 5-15 plug and inserted it into a 240V outlet using an adapter. I'm thinking it will probably reject it if it senses that's it's ungrounded or if it's 240 V.

Tesla's modular plugs set the current, not the voltage. It Just So Happens some are intended for 120V and others 240V but all the plug does is tell the Mobile Connector what current to tell the vehicle it can have. This is done with dip switch in the Wall Connector.

 

[andrew_j]

I rented a well used Turo 2020 Model 3 for a month last year and just used Level I at home when daughter was back from college and I did not have access to her car. However it was just topping the 40-50 miles Level I and worked well for my needs . My work has free Level II charging which I used mostly.

I almost bit on purchase of EV for 100mi day/commute that occurs every other week but glad I did not as resale definitely tanked and pricing is even better now. For now a “beater” 2013 Acura RDX.

 

[Astro14]

Prospective owners have been asking me about Tesla ownership since Dec 2018. I've learned a lot.
I ask them, "How ya gonna charge?" You might be surprised at some of the responses...

Anyways, I advise people to get serious about EV ownership. Check with an electrician for accurate charging guidance on your home's properties; you need to know! On a side note, find out about auto insurance; it can be nasty!

I used a NEMA 14-50 with the mobile charger for a few years and then had the Wall Connector installed. 33-35 MPH charging. Oh yeah, the juice is from that big nuclear reactor up in the sky...

Having said that, the family across the street never plugs in their Bolt; the wife has free charging at her local government job parking lot.
A friend at work never charged his at home; many companies around here offer subsidized or even free charging.

So it depends on your use case. But do be realistic. The number 1 reason EV owners go back to ICE is charging issues.

I agree with everything you said, but I would contend that your last point is less about charging at home, and more about charging on the road.

We didn’t buy a BEV, just a PHEV, but we did get a proper charger.

Hard to believe somebody would spend, what, $70,000 on a car and not spend the $1500 necessary to charge it at home.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I agree with everything you said, but I would contend that your last point is less about charging at home, and more about charging on the road.

We didn’t buy a BEV, just a PHEV, but we did get a proper charger.

Hard to believe somebody would spend, what, $70,000 on a car and not spend the $1500 necessary to charge it at home.

I don't have the numbers, but it is likely both. I say this because in discussions with prospective buyers, some say, "I can't charge at home, but there's a Supercharger near me; it's only a few minutes, right?"

Remember, the vast majority of driving averages something like 35 miles per day, so Supercharging would be rare for most driving if you can charge at home, perhaps even with a minimal setup.

Add to that the lack of public charging in some areas, and you have a recipe for trouble. If I could not charge at home, I would not own an EV. My swag is, people sometimes buy a vehicle for the wrong reasons... Oops!

But your point about people not including the cost of a proper home charging upgrade is well taken. That's exactly what I tell people. Many do not even know if their service panel can accept another circuit breaker.

 

[Astro14]

I don't have the numbers, but it is likely both. I say this because in discussions with prospective buyers, some say, "I can't charge at home, but there's a Supercharger near me; it's only a few minutes, right?"

Remember, the vast majority of driving averages something like 35 miles per day, so Supercharging would be rare for most driving if you can charge at home, perhaps even with a minimal setup.

Add to that the lack of public charging in some areas, and you have a recipe for trouble. If I could not charge at home, I would not own an EV. My swag is, people sometimes buy a vehicle for the wrong reasons... Oops!

But your point about people not including the cost of a proper home charging upgrade is well taken. That's exactly what I tell people. Many do not even know if their service panel can accept another circuit breaker.

I’m often shocked (though, I suppose I shouldn’t be) about the lack of planning and forethought that goes into people’s decisions.

Before I bought an $86,000 car, I had an electrician out to the house for an estimate. I knew the panel was full - because I had added a couple of 240V circuits for woodworking machines, and a dedicated 120V for garage lights (everything separate, of course, nothing like having a breaker blow on a machine and being plunged into darkness) - but I wanted to know if we could double a couple of them.

Turned out that we could, and the estimate came in at $1,500 for all the work. Had we needed a new panel - and been closer to $3,000 for that plus the charger wiring - at least we would have known going in to the decision.

I cannot imagine being so thoughtless as to buy the car, particularly one that expensive, bring it home, and then find out that I can’t charge it.

How do these people get through life?

 

[JeffKeryk]

How do these people get through life?

People like you, and others like you, help them. Given that many, including me, often bumble through life, we are fortunate to have the Astros of the world. I have met many like you who took time for me and gave me a chance. They changed my life. It's really that simple.

 

[JavierH19]

Isn't the energy efficiency worse with 120v. But i don't know if it's enough to be noticed on the bill.

 

[Astro14]

People like you, and others like you, help them. Given that many, including me, often bumble through life, we are fortunate to have the Astros of the world. I have met many like you; they changed my life. It's really that simple.

My great grandfather, for whom I am named, started a company and was quite successful (there is no generational wealth, before anyone presumes - the Bank of Delaware “managed” his estate down to zero during my grandmother’s later years).

He wrote a book called “Thinking Things Through” - not to be confused with much more modern titles of the same name.

He advocated becoming fully informed before making a decision. In the military, we called it “IPB” - Intel Prep of the Battlespace” which later became “IPOE” - Intel Prep of the Operating Environment.

He advocated determining requirements vs. simple desires.

He advocated considering the follow-on effects, the potential outcomes, of your decisions.

Those concepts need to be taught, and to be very blunt, they are not.

I’ll have to go find my copy - long since out of print - and re-read it.

The older I get, the greater his wisdom and insight.

 

[Brons2]

Just had a section of our driveway replaced (tree roots) and as a result haven't been able to get our Tesla Model 3 into the garage (where we have a level 2 charger) for quite awhile. But I was able to park about 30' from the house and have charged it during that time with a long extension cord and 120 Volts.

We've taken a few fairly long trips and charged it to 90% once, otherwise our usual 80%. I'm surprised how well it worked. It charges for hours of course but that's often through the night, so it's been no inconvenience at all.

It seems a 50 or 60 mile daily commute would be quite feasible with only a level 1 home charger.

50-60 miles round trip daily on exclusively L1 would probably work with a high efficiency car like a Model 3.

That is about my commute when I drive to the office and it's stretching it to charge on L1 with an F150 Lightning. I did manage to eek out 2.5 miles/kwh today which is on the high side for this truck. Left around 86% and arrived at the office at 72%. Something has to be done about people parking at the EV spots and not charging at work though, it's still distressingly common.

But I try to take the train most days I come to the office and besides being easier to live with with the charging on the truck, I generally just enjoy the train ride a lot more than driving.

If I really had to drive to the office 5 days a week, I might need to go ahead and get a L2 charging solution. I'll regain roughly 13-14% overnight on L1, but use 25-30% every day for a 60 mile commute.

Assuming I could never pull an L2 charger at work, and best case secenario of 25% usage on commute and 14% return overnight, and no other driving, it could look like this.

Monday leave 100, return 75
Tuesday leave 89, return 64
Wednesday leave 79, return 54
Thursday leave 68, return 43
Friday leave 57, return 32.

I would probably have to consistently drive 10 mph under the speed limit to achieve these numbers, also.

The problem becomes, returning home at 6PM on Friday with 32%, I'm not sure on L1 I could get back to 100% by Monday morning even if I didn't drive the truck all weekend. I do have an L2 charger in the garage but it is not possible to close the garage door with the truck in it. Best case I'd probably get back to low 90s percentage wise, and that pushes the numbers down for the following week.

Or I could just install an outdoor L2 and none of this would be an issue

 

[JeffKeryk]

@Brons2 your post sounds like so many people I talk to... "I could just blah-blah-blah..."

Go big or go home!

 

[Brons2]

@Brons2 your post sounds like so many people I talk to... "I could just blah-blah-blah..."

Go big or go home!

I have a 40A L2 outdoor hardwired charger ready to go in, sitting in the box in the garage with the breaker, 6GA whip and everything else I need.

But I need HOA approval, waiting on that.

In the meanwhile, this is a real world situation where someone may find value in my L1 struggle, so anyway.

RTW 5 days a week was announced yesterday via email. I'm going to of course tell them to stick it in their ear as soon as I can. I will also be riding the train as much as I can, so that will help.

 

[TimeFlies]

My wife has a Leaf, and at home all we have is level 1 charging, via an extension cord plugged into the house. It is more than enough for her useable. She can plug it in every second day really. Most people are not taking daily road trips of 200 kms. Thinking about the average persons daily commute, they probably only need to charge their EV car twice a week. Once or twice a week from say 90% to 10%. So if you plug in every day, or every other day, to your regular 120 volt outlet, from the time you get home, till you leave the next day, its plenty. If you're heading out on a long trip, then a quick stop somewhere in say the first hour or two of leaving, to quick charge it, and your off. The range anxiety wore off fast for her. She kept it charged way up after first, but after a month she would leave at 40% and knew she had plenty for her day.

 

[JeffKeryk]

My wife has a Leaf, and at home all we have is level 1 charging, via an extension cord plugged into the house. It is more than enough for her useable. She can plug it in every second day really. Most people are not taking daily road trips of 200 kms. Thinking about the average persons daily commute, they probably only need to charge their EV car twice a week. Once or twice a week from say 90% to 10%. So if you plug in every day, or every other day, to your regular 120 volt outlet, from the time you get home, till you leave the next day, its plenty. If you're heading out on a long trip, then a quick stop somewhere in say the first hour or two of leaving, to quick charge it, and your off. The range anxiety wore off fast for her. She kept it charged way up after first, but after a month she would leave at 40% and knew she had plenty for her day.

Agree, but I wonder if you have another vehicle? I do, but we take the Tesla anyways. I charge to 95% if traveling over say 150 miles.

 

[TimeFlies]

Agree, but I wonder if you have another vehicle? I do, but we take the Tesla anyways. I charge to 95% if traveling over say 150 miles.

We both have gas pickups, but hers usually sits in the garage. I think she drove it twice last month, once to do a garbage run, and another day to go pick up some ATV tires.

 

[Saturnguy]

If your panel is Square D, and 200 amp,
and you have four 15 or 20 amp single breakers in it,
you can get a certified electrician to remove the four singles,
and replace them with two twin breakers
This frees up two slots for a double breaker (220 volts)

 

[meep]

People like you, and others like you, help them. Given that many, including me, often bumble through life, we are fortunate to have the Astros of the world. I have met many like you who took time for me and gave me a chance. They changed my life. It's really that simple.

If we ever get to meet in person, I look forward to looking you in the eye and receiving your handshake.