Lets have a detailed technical discussion about coolant
- Thread starter SnowDrifter
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I just went to their site and could only find articles dating as far back to 2015 on "Honda." Their search must be pretty bad.
Anyways, here is the link I found it: https://gl1800riders.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-29487.html
Supporting that position from Honda (that silicated coolant is bad for their engines), is the following TSB from 1995 (I realize that is dated, but it does give actual data from Honda): https://www.handa-accessories.com/coolant.pdf
Originally Posted by willbur
Paulri-
I went looking for the MCN reference regarding water pump failure on Honda bikes using non OE coolant. Can't find it.Can you point to its location?
Anyways, here is the link I found it: https://gl1800riders.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-29487.html
Supporting that position from Honda (that silicated coolant is bad for their engines), is the following TSB from 1995 (I realize that is dated, but it does give actual data from Honda): https://www.handa-accessories.com/coolant.pdf
Originally Posted by willbur
Paulri-
I went looking for the MCN reference regarding water pump failure on Honda bikes using non OE coolant. Can't find it.Can you point to its location?
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Paulri-
Thank you for the links. Informative and clearly lays out reason in detail why Asian manufactures dislike silicates. However, since these articles are almost 26 years old, perhaps advances in water pump seal technology and coolants since then make use of silicates acceptable in coolants. The Europeans seem to prefer them.
Thank you for the links. Informative and clearly lays out reason in detail why Asian manufactures dislike silicates. However, since these articles are almost 26 years old, perhaps advances in water pump seal technology and coolants since then make use of silicates acceptable in coolants. The Europeans seem to prefer them.
There are studies and papers that have said that the theory that Silicates damage water pump seals is not true, i certainly don't believe they are in any way harmful.
the VW gourp switched first from a traditional IAT formula in 1996 to a full OAT coolant, then in 2005 they changed their coolant specifications again since they found the Silicates were beneficial and worked really well in combination with OAT ihibitors.
the VW gourp switched first from a traditional IAT formula in 1996 to a full OAT coolant, then in 2005 they changed their coolant specifications again since they found the Silicates were beneficial and worked really well in combination with OAT ihibitors.
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I've decided that from now on i'm going to use Silicated OAT coolants like VW G12++ and G13 ( Glysantn G40/GG40 ) on any car i own, no 2-Eha, and they have no problems with copper, brass or solder, and they especially give excellent results with regards to Aluminium corrosion, they don't have problems with Silicate dropout or gelling and last 5 years like other OAT coolants.
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FordCapriDriver-
Interesting topic and I appreciate your diligent research. Perhaps you can provide links to these papers/studies regarding silicates in coolants?
One cannot disregard ppls experience with silicate coolants in their Honda bikes and the relevant Honda TSB. Honda knows a thing or two about this stuff. But this was long ago...
Interesting topic and I appreciate your diligent research. Perhaps you can provide links to these papers/studies regarding silicates in coolants?
One cannot disregard ppls experience with silicate coolants in their Honda bikes and the relevant Honda TSB. Honda knows a thing or two about this stuff. But this was long ago...
Yes, I realize that those references are old. I guess my question would be, are there any more recent studies that indicate that silicates are not harmful to seals? And as long as we keep our 20 year old Honda, those old studies will be relevant.
Originally Posted by willbur
Paulri-
Thank you for the links. Informative and clearly lays out reason in detail why Asian manufactures dislike silicates. However, since these articles are almost 26 years old, perhaps advances in water pump seal technology and coolants since then make use of silicates acceptable in coolants. The Europeans seem to prefer them.
Originally Posted by willbur
Paulri-
Thank you for the links. Informative and clearly lays out reason in detail why Asian manufactures dislike silicates. However, since these articles are almost 26 years old, perhaps advances in water pump seal technology and coolants since then make use of silicates acceptable in coolants. The Europeans seem to prefer them.
I just used the generic Prestone with "Cor-Gaurd" in my Kia Rio. Flushed it real good with distilled water to where I was down < 1% of glycol and dosed it to about 65/35 glycol/water.
Originally Posted by willbur
FordCapriDriver-
Interesting topic and I appreciate your diligent research. Perhaps you can provide links to these papers/studies regarding silicates in coolants?
One cannot disregard ppls experience with silicate coolants in their Honda bikes and the relevant Honda TSB. Honda knows a thing or two about this stuff. But this was long ago...
https://books.google.es/books?id=As...cates%20water%20pump%20seals&f=false
If the link doesn't work : Engine Coolant Testing: State of the Art : a Symposium
edited by W. H. Ailor, page 52
It's on Google Books
FordCapriDriver-
Interesting topic and I appreciate your diligent research. Perhaps you can provide links to these papers/studies regarding silicates in coolants?
One cannot disregard ppls experience with silicate coolants in their Honda bikes and the relevant Honda TSB. Honda knows a thing or two about this stuff. But this was long ago...
https://books.google.es/books?id=As...cates%20water%20pump%20seals&f=false
If the link doesn't work : Engine Coolant Testing: State of the Art : a Symposium
edited by W. H. Ailor, page 52
It's on Google Books
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Page 52 of this link doesn't mention silicates in coolant: https://books.google.com/books?id=79UE_fcbC3cC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
When I clicked on your link, I saw google books tell me that it didn't provide a copy of page 52.
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted by willbur
FordCapriDriver-
Interesting topic and I appreciate your diligent research. Perhaps you can provide links to these papers/studies regarding silicates in coolants?
One cannot disregard ppls experience with silicate coolants in their Honda bikes and the relevant Honda TSB. Honda knows a thing or two about this stuff. But this was long ago...
https://books.google.es/books?id=As...cates%20water%20pump%20seals&f=false
If the link doesn't work : Engine Coolant Testing: State of the Art : a Symposium
edited by W. H. Ailor, page 52
It's on Google Books
When I clicked on your link, I saw google books tell me that it didn't provide a copy of page 52.
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted by willbur
FordCapriDriver-
Interesting topic and I appreciate your diligent research. Perhaps you can provide links to these papers/studies regarding silicates in coolants?
One cannot disregard ppls experience with silicate coolants in their Honda bikes and the relevant Honda TSB. Honda knows a thing or two about this stuff. But this was long ago...
https://books.google.es/books?id=As...cates%20water%20pump%20seals&f=false
If the link doesn't work : Engine Coolant Testing: State of the Art : a Symposium
edited by W. H. Ailor, page 52
It's on Google Books
Strange, for me on page 52 it says " Silicates have been likely falsely implicated in water pump seals failures. Investigation of water pump seal failures have indicated that the mechanism is far more complex than simply coolant chemistry or the presence of silicate.
Yes, I see that now. Were you able to track down the actual studies you (and that the book) referred to, or are you simply saying that these people are saying that studies have shown that the problem wasn't silicates in coolant?
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Strange, for me on page 52 it says " Silicates have been likely falsely implicated in water pump seals failures. Investigation of water pump seal failures have indicated that the mechanism is far more complex than simply coolant chemistry or the presence of silicate.
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Strange, for me on page 52 it says " Silicates have been likely falsely implicated in water pump seals failures. Investigation of water pump seal failures have indicated that the mechanism is far more complex than simply coolant chemistry or the presence of silicate.
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