An article came out that it’s becoming common in California to run the entire grid on renewables, represented mostly by solar, for durations of about 6 hours per day. In the first three months of this year, it has happened over 50 times. Storage is required to deal with further expansion.
Latest on renewables in California
- Thread starter Snagglefoot
- Start date
How does the cost per Kwhr compare to pre-renewable pricing?
From my reading not sure about recent solar panels but only a few years ago they weren't lasting nearly as long as estimated. This skewed the numbers making it look cheaper than it was. There are solar panels that are super efficient military grade and can charge using multiple wavelengths of light but I think they're outrageously expensive. This is a step in the right direction.
Not sure. Missouri gets 57% of its electricity from coal. Must be a pretty good price there.
Last edited:
Storage is the boogeyman that will need to be figured out economically in order to get to a high percentage of renewables.
None are renewable at all. All required fossil fuels at every stage of their lifecycle.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Keep in mind, this is NET, they are not shutting down all the gas plants or Diablo Canyon when this is happening, they are just exporting enough to net out the production of the non-VRE sources.
This is right now for example, you can see a bit of gas is loaded, hydro is running, geothermal is running, biomass is running, nuclear is running and there are both imports and exports happening, as well as a ton of battery charging happening:
You'll also notice the emissions intensity "humps".
This is Ontario right now in comparison. Same amount of low carbon, a fraction of the VRE, and no emissions intensity "humps":
We are also exporting like maniacs, which is a byproduct of having massive amounts of clean baseload in the low demand shoulder seasons. While we have reactors down for refurbishment, we still have enough nuclear capacity online that nuclear plus a little bit of hydro can meet all of Ontario's demand.
Doubtful. Please post a link to the source of this information.
There are several articles out there. Try this one.
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/06/02/solar-passes-100-of-power-demand-in-california/#google_vignette
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
As I described above, it's a NET arrangement, they aren't actually shutting down other sources. For example, when Ontario's entire nuclear fleet is online, we have 13GW of baseload nuclear. Spring/Fall demand can be 10GW or less. Ergo, during those periods, it's possible for the Ontario grid to be described as "entirely powered by nuclear", while we would be exporting the living heck out of everything else.
We generally avoid having the whole fleet online during the spring/fall for that reason, that's where maintenance outages are scheduled for, getting us down to 9 or 10GW, tempering exports to more reasonable levels, though they still get pretty high, as can be seen in my screenshot.
So, in a place with lots of sun like California, yeah, if you install more nameplate solar than you have demand for several hours in the spring, you are going to have the same scenario, except that this is only for those hours where solar is most productive, as other sources have to fill-in during the morning, evening and overnight. This is visible in the "humps" in the Electricity Maps graph I posted.
A lot of commercial customers have been saying they are carbon free or all renewable when the fine print says they are trading carbon credit with other renewable sources elsewhere (not sure if it is the same hour between consumption and generation or just a credit purchase agreement as a "NET").
The same data center that said all renewable or carbon free is build right next to a natural gas plant and is powered by it next door without going to the grid. Sure it is powered by renewable, they just buy the credit so the guy living next to the solar farm or hydro dam cannot claim renewable again.
Maybe all the "dirty power" got sent to non public data center for all the stuff customers don't care about, like AI or arc furnaces or aluminum refining.
The same data center that said all renewable or carbon free is build right next to a natural gas plant and is powered by it next door without going to the grid. Sure it is powered by renewable, they just buy the credit so the guy living next to the solar farm or hydro dam cannot claim renewable again.
Maybe all the "dirty power" got sent to non public data center for all the stuff customers don't care about, like AI or arc furnaces or aluminum refining.
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
We don’t want all electric in our region anymore than I do at home. In a 40 mile radius - have nuclear, GTG, solar, and wind. But walk into that 27 acre building making pipe - the cherry red billets got there with direct heat from NG - then finally tempered with electric ovens …
Just like my kitchen/house
…
Just like my kitchen/house
…
We're at 9.4 cents winter, and 14.5 cents per summer kilowatt hour from a 3-stack coal plant. Most of the time, it looks like it's not running and other times we see those white poofy condensation clouds. The electric company says that plant runs "wide open 24/7 365".
For our 1,000 square foot home, we budget bill for less than $100/month.
I really like the idea of solar, but (in my situation) it's a cost issue.
For our 1,000 square foot home, we budget bill for less than $100/month.
I really like the idea of solar, but (in my situation) it's a cost issue.
Like Overkill mentioned, they simply export the excess “non renewable” energy.
It’s a clever play on words and most people will assume the “dirty” plants are getting shut down, they are not.
Similarly the term “renewable” is very misleading, there is nothing renewable about solar or wind.
It’s a clever play on words and most people will assume the “dirty” plants are getting shut down, they are not.
Similarly the term “renewable” is very misleading, there is nothing renewable about solar or wind.
The price of electricity isn't going down as utilities switch to renewables, if that's what you're wondering.
The only places renewables make power cheaper is like Hawaii or Guam where they use diesels and coal that been barged 2000+ miles.
I see the same happened last year 98 of 116 days from late winter to early summer
My only problem with this and that of many is its not such a great example when you have the highest Electric rates in the USA>
Im very happy paying 10 cents a kWh on the coast of North Carolina and was very happy paying around the same price when I lived in SC and SC gets 55% or 51% (depending on media source) of its electricity from reliable Nuclear power plants.
https://www.chooseenergy.com/data-center/nuclear-generation-by-state/
If I understand correctly in California their electricity cost 300 to 500% more than I pay.
Yeah, I was doubtful too but it's fact.
However above (post #16) I mentioned at what cost? I see @dogememe also commented. Nothing to brag about in California if you have the most expensive electricity prices in the entire country. Below is a link for 2024 and I am sure the OP is correct for this year too.
https://electrek.co/2024/12/31/california-grid-100-percent-renewables-no-blackouts-cost-rises/
It's the highest price in the nation regardless of the generation source.
Here is our April bill, newly built 2022 energy efficient home, our now "retirement" home on the coast.
1800 sq ft.
I still laugh at the bills but in fairness I also did in our past much larger home living in SC.
Its stupid, our water/sewer bills are almost the same cost of electricity!
Major appliances -
HVAC = Heat pump
Electric Dryer
Electric oven
Propane Gas stove cooktop
Propane Gas tankless hot water
