Those oils have always fascinated me. I also would love some informed perspective on them.
Lake Speed Jr. ... Diesel vs Gas oils
- Thread starter d00df00d
- Start date
Been running delvac esp 5w40 in my 3.7 F150 for the past 3k miles, any concerns for excess wear?
I would start with a UOA rather than opinions.
BrendanC
$100 site donor 2024
hard pill to swallow for die hard rotella fans
i do run HDEO in OPE as that is what i was taught. have been slowly moving OPE over to M1 0w-40 through knowledge learned here. my accord currently gets Delo XSP 5w-40 due to the rate it burns oil and i have 20ish gallons from the AAP clearance. my truck and the wife’s car get HPL either PCEO or super car.
i do run HDEO in OPE as that is what i was taught. have been slowly moving OPE over to M1 0w-40 through knowledge learned here. my accord currently gets Delo XSP 5w-40 due to the rate it burns oil and i have 20ish gallons from the AAP clearance. my truck and the wife’s car get HPL either PCEO or super car.
The justification seems to be their use in motorcycles and the alleged comparatively higher levels of ZDDP compared to API SM and later PCMOs. The good old "thousands of motorcycles use this oil and have no problems so it's fine in my XYZ".
95% (or more) of those motorcycle owners couldn't tell you the difference between ATF and engine oil outside of nomenclature, much less the differences in additive chemistry between a PCMO, HDMO, and MCMO. Thus, I give their anecdotes very little to no weight. They think since the engine didn't explode, the oil must be good, and when the engine does experience a failure, their bias will blame it on anything but the oil. "I had good oil in it so that couldn't have been the problem. Must've been them darn cheap bearings." (then they proceed to trash a set of expensive bearings in the same fashion) I've seen several teardowns with excessive bearing and ring wear and coked pistons that isn't seen when a better oil is used.
A local guy with a drag bike was having this issue running T4 15W-40. He had to tear it down to replace the bearings after every season as they'd be horribly worn. He ignored me when I told him to change the oil but listened to someone else who offered to eat the cost of oil analysis for him. After just 1 practice day and race weekend (~15 passes), both copper and aluminum were in the 200-300 ppm range. He switched to M1 4t 10W-40 and that wear dropped to ~40 ppm.
Last I checked, Rotella has a JASO rating for use in motorcycles.
Let`s be honest, no YT channel will ever recommend something that`s against manufacturers specification due to possible liability. I`ve been using HDEO in my gasoline powered car for the last 5 years, HDEO in my bike for the last 4 years and both vehicles shows no sign of engine damage. So like many, i`m running HDEO without any issues to this date.
Insignificant. That standard is really weak. It allows 15% NOACK, has a stupid wide range for wet clutch friction, and a 40 grade can shear 25%, down to a 30 grade and still pass. It makes API SP standards look impressive, and that's saying something.
Agree. Some oils that pass, slip in some MC's. Some oils that aren't tested/don't list work fine in some wet clutches. Just never that simple unfortunately.
Use a Cat TO-4 oil then. Still a third of the cost of an engine oil with a picture of a motorcycle on the label.
That could be, but I have never had a JASO MA rated oil slip on a clutch that wasn't already on its way out.
Or just use a better quality oil where you don't have to wonder if it's sufficient or not. It's not like you have to take out a mortgage to afford it. Expensive oil is still relatively cheap in the grand scheme of things. An extra $20 is cheap peace of mind.
Thousand of UOA of gas engines with HDEO in them right here on this site. Was a hot topic 20 years ago. And a pre-curser to VRP. If you had a filthy engine, a diesel oil would clean it up nice and slow. Extra wear metals would have been shown as an alarming trend for these applications if they were a problem. Maybe on a small scale, say an increase of a few ppm. But that is not going to have a huge effect over the life of the engine.
But the LSPI issue is something interesting. I doubt the HDEO oils are tailored to this issue, so if they cause it, I can see why the correct oil is vastly better. Any pre-ignition is damaging, but seems to be much worse on a turbo GDI engine. Something a diesel just physically would not encounter.
Hence - I see no reason a HDEO in an old small block wouldn't do great, but in a 2.0 VW turbo would be a problem.
But the LSPI issue is something interesting. I doubt the HDEO oils are tailored to this issue, so if they cause it, I can see why the correct oil is vastly better. Any pre-ignition is damaging, but seems to be much worse on a turbo GDI engine. Something a diesel just physically would not encounter.
Hence - I see no reason a HDEO in an old small block wouldn't do great, but in a 2.0 VW turbo would be a problem.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Maybe that, and leftover habits of 15+ years ago when Ritella T6 was the go-to oil for VW EA113 and Subaru engines that diluted a lot. T6 was thick, and at that time, PCMO 5W40 was not as available everywhere as today, especially on the internet.
Regardless that T6 is not anywhere as thick as before, engines are (well, some) less prone to dilution, and you have plenty of better choices; they are stuck on this urban legend.
I wish that were true. There are tons of videos in which people push aftermarket parts that are outside of factory spec.
Even from FCP Euro, supposed champion of OE quality. I have a serious chip on my shoulder about this one.
At 0:40, dude describes how a certain BMW suspension arm was engineered to bend in a collision so that it won't puncture the fuel tank. Then, in the next breath, he pushes an aftermarket "upgrade" arm specifically because it won't bend in that way.
And that's not even mentioning basically every repair video ever, which uses the manufacturer's instructions as suggestions at best.
Last edited:
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
The situation in which your fuel tank won't be punctured is totally avoidable. For $249, you can get your tank punctured.
Imagine the foam at 15k rpm’s
I'm cruising at 1500-1850 rpm with my fingers in my ears screaming "lalalalalala." Foam isn't really a concern in my CK-4 application.Imagine the foam at 15k rpm’s
Granted there's that pesky >100k shaft speed on the turbo.
Last edited:
Similar threads
