Knowingly choosing dino over full-syn?

[RTexasF]

My answer is a combination of 1 and 2. Two new '08 Toyotas require oil & filter every 5K or 6 months to maintain warranty. We drive perhaps 1500 miles in six months (if that) so synthetic would be an absolute waste of money. For example her car was brought home Christmas Eve of '07. As of July '09 it has had three oil changes and only has 3300 miles on the clock. Just not worth synthetic. Dealer uses Mobil 5000......which will never see 5000 miles!

Each vehicle has a 6.5 quart capacity so that's 26 quarts per year for two vehicles! Dino it is , dino it shall remain.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: FastSUV
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
In harsh drag racing conditions (lots of power on the stock bottom end) with relatively cool oil all the time I've had less wear with dino than synthetic. This is from many teardowns, not used oil analysis.

I have not used a "racing" synthetic like Redline but I do plan on experimenting with it.

So for me, the answer is less wear. That really goes against common sense lol.


Man what kind of dino did you mainly use? And that was on a turbo car? I would see why if it was something like VR1 dino, but if it was YB or something that might be a good testament.

I have heard of similar results with gear oil too.

thx


Dino was Superflo 20w-50 at .99 a quart.

Syn was Mobil 1 15w50.

I have to qualify that with the fact that I'm running on the stock bottom end, well nearly stock (girdle, JEs, and gapless rings). There's evidence of things moving around and distorting. My conditions aren't normal. I also give it time to cool in between runs so oil temp is never a factor. The load on the rod bearings and rings would be similar to a V8 making over 800hp but luckily turbo motors are easy on parts.

 

[gfh77665]

Full Synthetic is more economical than dino. I realize people can't readily understand this, but its very true. Full Synthetic with extended OCI's, (and filters bought less often, too) ends up cheaper.

But the REAL payoff comes when you get a higher resale value, and a quicker sale, near the end of your ownership, due to telling the prospective buyer you used 100% Full Synthetic all the time!

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665

But the REAL payoff comes when you get a higher resale value, and a quicker sale, near the end of your ownership, due to telling the prospective buyer you used 100% Full Synthetic all the time!


You wish!

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: FastSUV
So far the only evidence I found is that a lot of the Marine OEM's insist on dino in the lower units & in the crank cases because it protects against corrosion better in storage.


I heard that too. That was one of the explanation given for the mystery of higher iron with some synthetic (group V, IIRC) oils. I don't know if that applies to group III pseudosynthetic oils.

 

[Captain_Klink]

group 2 oils are readily available for 2.50 per quart
group 3 oils are readily available for 3.50 - 4.00 per quart
so there is an extra 4-5$ per oil change, or if you use 50% synth, and extra 2-2.50 per oil change. 2 bucks is in my budget range. 5w30 oil is all group 2, 5w20 is group 2+. so i run
a 50:50 group 2 group 3 mix, which is close enough and just costs an extra couple of bucks per change, basically chump change or the cost of a couple cups of coffee. i've been brown bagging my lunch, and i get a better lunch that way, and save 2$ a day over cafeteria food. basically motor oil is so cheap, they are practically giving it away. might as well at least use 50% synth, it's only 2$ extra per change. 5 bucks extra gets the full synth, means the engine has as thin an oil as possible at start up, and many of us take short trips, and start up is a significant source of wear, so i am quite happy to treat my engine that way. as far as group 4/5 oils go, i've been reading that their "tenacity" is low, meaning the film strength is actually not as good as a conventional oil. also mobil oils seem to not give any better UOA than just SuperTech, so I use SuperTech knowing that I get an honest group 3, or Napa, another honest group 3. even though group 3 is just "pseudosynthetic" it is still a much more uniform molecular structure, so the molecules don't get tangled up with each other and slide past one another more easily, plus the pour point is lower, and it needs less viscosity improvers, and is more shear stable, so for an extra 2-5$, considering I'm driving a vehicle worth 25,000$, this represents 1/10,000 part of the value of the vehicle, a very tiny tiny insurance policy.

 

[FastSUV]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: FastSUV
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
In harsh drag racing conditions (lots of power on the stock bottom end) with relatively cool oil all the time I've had less wear with dino than synthetic. This is from many teardowns, not used oil analysis.

I have not used a "racing" synthetic like Redline but I do plan on experimenting with it.

So for me, the answer is less wear. That really goes against common sense lol.


Man what kind of dino did you mainly use? And that was on a turbo car? I would see why if it was something like VR1 dino, but if it was YB or something that might be a good testament.

I have heard of similar results with gear oil too.

thx


Dino was Superflo 20w-50 at .99 a quart.

Syn was Mobil 1 15w50.

I have to qualify that with the fact that I'm running on the stock bottom end, well nearly stock (girdle, JEs, and gapless rings). There's evidence of things moving around and distorting. My conditions aren't normal. I also give it time to cool in between runs so oil temp is never a factor. The load on the rod bearings and rings would be similar to a V8 making over 800hp but luckily turbo motors are easy on parts.


I hope you beat some stangs...Buick is better I can't remember the guy who has the 7sec GN who is famous..Kenny D. I think?

 

[BuickGN]

Just a couple lol. I like to ease away from traffic from a redlight so I don't have to worry about people changing lanes into me. So I eased away, hardly giving it any gas, didn't realize the Mustang next to me at the light was racing. At the next light he was complimenting how fast my car was and how it was a good race. I didn't have the heart to tell him I didn't know he was there and I don't think the rpms ever went past 2,800.

Ken Duttweiler in the old days, I believe Len Freeman holds the record today at over 200mph and a 6.80 1/4 in a single turbo setup.

The first time I saw your user name on here I was wondering if you were a Sy/Ty owner. How does that 5.9 in the Jeep run? That's the old 360, right?

 

[FastSUV]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Just a couple lol. I like to ease away from traffic from a redlight so I don't have to worry about people changing lanes into me. So I eased away, hardly giving it any gas, didn't realize the Mustang next to me at the light was racing. At the next light he was complimenting how fast my car was and how it was a good race. I didn't have the heart to tell him I didn't know he was there and I don't think the rpms ever went past 2,800.

Ken Duttweiler in the old days, I believe Len Freeman holds the record today at over 200mph and a 6.80 1/4 in a single turbo setup.

The first time I saw your user name on here I was wondering if you were a Sy/Ty owner. How does that 5.9 in the Jeep run? That's the old 360, right?


It ran 14.9 when I first got it...but beat some LS1's almost to half track 3.73 posi/full-time 4wd and a high factory stall. When you launch it just goes. Unfortunately that user name is a recyled name from my 20's and it is lifted and 180k miles now so it is far from "fast" anymore, but still runs good for an SUV & is a torque monster for towing/ off-road, etc. It is a 360 with a few bolt-ons.

I recall a guy from the Jeep board running high 11's with a 5.9L in stock trim with a blower. I am sure that surprised some stangs LOL. And the old man's bone stock SRT-8 runs 13.7...I used to have a couple f-bodies but got into Jeeps instead and during that trasition I had the next to new stock 5.9 and had a few track nights just for fun.

And I'd love to have one of those GMC's; I remember they came out when I was in HS and everyone wanted one.

 

[sciphi]

My car sees whatever is on sale. That was Q Torque Power on clearance, and Formula Shell. It's all SM-rated 5w30, so it's much better stuff than what my 10-year-old car was running.

I will shorten the OCI with the dino because of the stop-and-go driving my car will see this year.

Fiancee's brand-new car she wants to keep for a long time I'm trying to sneak syn oil in there since she is much harder on her car than I am on mine. Although with gas prices she's slowly easing her right foot.

 

[RTexasF]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Full Synthetic is more economical than dino. I realize people can't readily understand this, but its very true. Full Synthetic with extended OCI's, (and filters bought less often, too) ends up cheaper.

But the REAL payoff comes when you get a higher resale value, and a quicker sale, near the end of your ownership, due to telling the prospective buyer you used 100% Full Synthetic all the time!


That's not realistic in my situation at all. It would end up incredibly expensive and also throw perfectly good synthetic oil out before it even got slightly dirty.

If you think telling a prospective buyer that the car has been fed Full Synthetic will yield more moeney you have a lot to learn.

 

[RTexasF]

That should have been money not moeney. The short time edit cut off is not user friendly.

 

[wgtoys]

I keep planning to switch back to conventional oils, but the deals keep me stocked up on Synthetics. Yesterday I bought three 5 quart bottles of Mobil 1 at WalMart which are $12 after rebate, or $2.40/quart. Most name brand conventional oils are selling for more than that around here.

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: Captain_Klink
so i run a 50:50 group 2 group 3 mix, which is close enough and just costs an extra couple of bucks per change


I'll be doing a 50:50 Scoobie mix at the next change in my wife's Malibu Maxx. It will be 5W30 Torque Power and either GTX, Supertech, or Superflo in the 10W30 flavor, which ever is oldest in the stash.

 

[Mobil1Fan77]

I'm willing to spend the money, I want the best protection for my engine. Also, out here in Colorado, we get several weeks of sub-zero weather out here, synthetics are superior in that environment, just look at the pour test that Mobil 1 did at minus 40 degrees, it was no contest.

I've stocked up on Mobil 1 at wal-mart, they are selling 5 qt jugs for $22, I bought enough to do 2 years worth of oil changes at 7500 mile intervals, works out to $4.50/quart.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: FastSUV
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
In harsh drag racing conditions (lots of power on the stock bottom end) with relatively cool oil all the time I've had less wear with conventional than synthetic. This is from many teardowns, not used oil analysis.

I have not used a "racing" synthetic like Redline but I do plan on experimenting with it.

So for me, the answer is less wear. That really goes against common sense lol.


Man what kind of conventional did you mainly use? And that was on a turbo car? I would see why if it was something like VR1 conventional, but if it was YB or something that might be a good testament.

I have heard of similar results with gear oil too.

thx


I know two guys that drive twin turbo Z`s. Both of them have been using 20w50 conventionals since brand new (GTX and YB). One car is nearing 400k miles and the other is nearing 300k miles. Both drive the living heck out of their cars and one of them tracks his. Both cars have original turbos and factory spec compression on all 6 cylinders. So I agree with Buick on this one. Conventional will protect an engine impeccably.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: FastSUV
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
In harsh drag racing conditions (lots of power on the stock bottom end) with relatively cool oil all the time I've had less wear with conventional than synthetic. This is from many teardowns, not used oil analysis.

I have not used a "racing" synthetic like Redline but I do plan on experimenting with it.

So for me, the answer is less wear. That really goes against common sense lol.


Man what kind of conventional did you mainly use? And that was on a turbo car? I would see why if it was something like VR1 conventional, but if it was YB or something that might be a good testament.

I have heard of similar results with gear oil too.

thx


I know two guys that drive twin turbo Z`s. Both of them have been using 20w50 conventionals since brand new (GTX and YB). One car is nearing 400k miles and the other is nearing 300k miles. Both drive the living heck out of their cars and one of them tracks his. Both cars have original turbos and factory spec compression on all 6 cylinders. So I agree with Buick on this one. Conventional will protect an engine impeccably.


Wow, now that's impressive.

 

[FastSUV]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: FastSUV
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
In harsh drag racing conditions (lots of power on the stock bottom end) with relatively cool oil all the time I've had less wear with conventional than synthetic. This is from many teardowns, not used oil analysis.

I have not used a "racing" synthetic like Redline but I do plan on experimenting with it.

So for me, the answer is less wear. That really goes against common sense lol.


Man what kind of conventional did you mainly use? And that was on a turbo car? I would see why if it was something like VR1 conventional, but if it was YB or something that might be a good testament.

I have heard of similar results with gear oil too.

thx


I know two guys that drive twin turbo Z`s. Both of them have been using 20w50 conventionals since brand new (GTX and YB). One car is nearing 400k miles and the other is nearing 300k miles. Both drive the living heck out of their cars and one of them tracks his. Both cars have original turbos and factory spec compression on all 6 cylinders. So I agree with Buick on this one. Conventional will protect an engine impeccably.


why 20w50 in OHC motor??? cause of the turbo?

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: FastSUV
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: FastSUV
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
In harsh drag racing conditions (lots of power on the stock bottom end) with relatively cool oil all the time I've had less wear with conventional than synthetic. This is from many teardowns, not used oil analysis.

I have not used a "racing" synthetic like Redline but I do plan on experimenting with it.

So for me, the answer is less wear. That really goes against common sense lol.


Man what kind of conventional did you mainly use? And that was on a turbo car? I would see why if it was something like VR1 conventional, but if it was YB or something that might be a good testament.

I have heard of similar results with gear oil too.

thx


I know two guys that drive twin turbo Z`s. Both of them have been using 20w50 conventionals since brand new (GTX and YB). One car is nearing 400k miles and the other is nearing 300k miles. Both drive the living heck out of their cars and one of them tracks his. Both cars have original turbos and factory spec compression on all 6 cylinders. So I agree with Buick on this one. Conventional will protect an engine impeccably.


why 20w50 in OHC motor??? cause of the turbo?


Sort of. I'm sure there's greater heat than the NA version. Those engines make a lot of torque and starting fairly low in the powerband. This seems to require a thicker oil to keep things separated. I'm sure Acquariuscsm knows for sure.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: gfh77665

But the REAL payoff comes when you get a higher resale value, and a quicker sale, near the end of your ownership, due to telling the prospective buyer you used 100% Full Synthetic all the time!


You wish!


I don't "wish" at all. I know it for a fact. When a buyer for my pick-up noticed I had ran Full Synthetic for the life of the vehicle, he bought it on the spot. He correctly believed that the truck got the best maintenence available. I have experienced this TWICE.