Kelly Blue Book online: do the values have any meaning to you?

[Elkins45]

For those of you that have access to "real" valuation data like whatever it is that the tax assessor and banks use, how closely do the values available to commoners like me on kbb.com track? Do they skew reliably in one direction? If the website tells me a car is worth $10k in a private party sale is the average buyer likely to actually pay near that or should they expect to pay more/less?

Let me try to ask it this way as well: if your car sold for what KBB says is the average private party value would you feel good about it, great about it, or feel like you sold too low?

I don't care about their estimates of trade in values because those are meaningless unless you know how inflated or discounted the car is you're trading against.

 

[GON]

The black book is really the valuation tool to use.

The black book is the weekly used car wholesale sold for prices. The data is fresh, not subject to algorithms or anything else. One can take the black book price and know what a vehicle is truly worth before dealer markups.

How the heck can KBB even value a private party transaction? KBB does not have access to that information.

 

[DemoFly]

Kelly was bought by autotrader. Conflict of interest ownership, all numbers suspect.

 

[eljefino]

These "value guides" exist to move tin, and dupe the uninformed.

Even a bank will loan way more money than a car's worth, so the "insider" books should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[andrew_j]

Vehicle is worth what buyer is willing to pay for it. KBB is a guide.

 

[RedSpider]

Problem with the question is, all the insiders arent using Kelley, they use Black Book.

I worked the retail side of car sales for three months and then on the back side (loans, repos and liquidation) for six years at a bank, and the only book we cared about at all was Black Book. We loaned on it, we repo'd based on it, and when I took the cars to auction, 'avg' black value was the goal and the value we used to set our floor bids. We did look at NADA but didnt use it for anything other than to say "Huh...interesting". We looked at Kelley Blue Book when we needed a good laugh.

If Jim Bob is trying to sell his truck to his neighbor Joe Bob down the road, and wants Kelley private party value, and gets it, he probably did pretty well.

Because......If Jim Bob wants to trade his truck at the Chevy dealer down in the big city, and expects Kelley trade-in value, the dealer is going to give him a free cup of coffee and a big "thanks for coming in today" and sent on his way with a coupon for a free head examination at the local asylum.

 

[Propflux01]

I have found that KBB is the lowball of all the "auto values" sites. I would love to know how to get the black book, though.

 

[cptbarkey]

How the heck can KBB even value a private party transaction? KBB does not have access to that information.

Kelly was bought by autotrader. Conflict of interest ownership, all numbers suspect.

Which is owned by Cox Automotive!

What else can a true mafia-like monopoly do but sell cars and report the valuation too?

 

[supton]

Vehicle is worth what buyer is willing to pay for it. KBB is a guide.

Yeah but how do you avoid overpaying and then finding out from BITOG et al that you're an idiot for overpaying?

I would love to know how to get the black book, though.

I did a quick google and it looks like Consumer Reports has a portal? Link. Not sure on accuracy etc. But that doesn't get cost to buy. Dealer lots are usually more pricey than private party, so add 10 or 20% for that?

I noticed on Edmunds that sometimes there is info on various models being up or down. If nothing else, searching for the VIN in question might land on Edmunds, or similar, and/or doing a search for same vehicle year and model to see what is on lots might find what is being advertised--which might not be transaction price but is ballpark.

 

[UncleDave]

Not anymore - KBB is only good for a range of value.

Auto trader is a much better indicator of what the going market for a specific cars value actually is.

Dealers pull it out when it suits them, and when it doesnt they will say something like " sell it to Kelly then" or make absurd statements like it doest matter what the BB says - the market is just a lsoft for 70 hemi cuda convertible 4 speeds right now.

 

[Propflux01]

Yeah but how do you avoid overpaying and then finding out from BITOG et al that you're an idiot for overpaying?


I did a quick google and it looks like Consumer Reports has a portal? Link. Not sure on accuracy etc. But that doesn't get cost to buy. Dealer lots are usually more pricey than private party, so add 10 or 20% for that?

View attachment 261417

I noticed on Edmunds that sometimes there is info on various models being up or down. If nothing else, searching for the VIN in question might land on Edmunds, or similar, and/or doing a search for same vehicle year and model to see what is on lots might find what is being advertised--which might not be transaction price but is ballpark.

No, this one:
https://www.blackbook.com/automotive-solutions/

Until you see the prices. (it’s marketed towards dealers)

 

[supton]

No, this one:
https://www.blackbook.com/automotive-solutions/

Until you see the prices. (it’s marketed towards dealers)

I did see that but it looked like a “buy our product” page. I didn’t see a way to find car values.

Maybe the CR link I posted is for a different Black Book? dunno.

 

[BigCahuna]

I use the NADA/ JD Powers book for vehicle values, because it's easy to access. What I have found thru the years it is pretty much on the mark. It asks for your zip code, which I thought was strange. I mean a car or motorcycle should be worth the same wither it's sold in New York or California right, nope. There are cars exactly alike, that sell for alot more in other parts of the country. The prices listed, are basically the average price, for which those cars sold for. Where all the sites get their info from is anyone's guess. I'm guessing it's from any given states Dept of MV. And based on how much tax is collected on the sale price. And the sale price has to be based on a vehicles age, modle, mileage, physical condition, and popularity. Pick up trucks will be more valuable in Austin Texas, than in New York city. So it may be listed for less where sales are slower. Looking at different sales sights can give you a good idea what a vehicle is worth. I've seen vehicles listed for sale at higher prices, than whats available local to me. I wouldn't just look at one source and purchase a vehicle based on their numbers. Check a few .,,

 

[ARCOgraphite]

For those of you that have access to "real" valuation data like whatever it is that the tax assessor and banks use, how closely do the values available to commoners like me on kbb.com track? Do they skew reliably in one direction? If the website tells me a car is worth $10k in a private party sale is the average buyer likely to actually pay near that or should they expect to pay more/less?

Let me try to ask it this way as well: if your car sold for what KBB says is the average private party value would you feel good about it, great about it, or feel like you sold too low?

I don't care about their estimates of trade in values because those are meaningless unless you know how inflated or discounted the car is you're trading against.

Back in the 80s and 90s when I was getting a loan from our FCU they used NADA to calc loan amount.

My understanding is a dealer will go right to Galves if they are unsure of your trade or it's marketability. This is where "they offered me $2900 less than the KBB trade value for my loaded Dodge Dart!!" comes from.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The black book is really the valuation tool to use.

The black book is the weekly used car wholesale sold for prices. The data is fresh, not subject to algorithms or anything else. One can take the black book price and know what a vehicle is truly worth before dealer markups.

How the heck can KBB even value a private party transaction? KBB does not have access to that information.

How does a retail buyer find access to black book data?

 

[2heeldrive]

KBB might not be the best, but I think it is a good place to start. I use KBB to get a range of trade in values... based on the Black Book example above, the KBB values were about 10% lower. NADA is another source that I use, I will take both and average them together. It's not an exact science, and a dealer will always low ball a trade and price their used cars at what they think market value is, usually way over market, IMHO, but I'm cheap.

The last time I traded a car (about three years ago) I had a firm quote from CarMax that the dealer matched. It was higher than NADA and KBB

 

[supton]

The last time I traded a car (about three years ago) I had a firm quote from CarMax that the dealer matched. It was higher than NADA and KBB

Yeah but what was OTD cost? I mean, if you paid MSRP (let alone more) the dealer has the wiggle room to "overpay" on a trade in and make up for it easily. If they sense that you're hung up on trade in cost--but not caring too much about what the new car costs--they are more than willing to fudge the numbers "in your favor". [Not trying to finagle the numbers out of you, just pointing out, it's all a shell game at the dealer.]

 

[Dr_Dr3i]

Yeah but what was OTD cost? I mean, if you paid MSRP (let alone more) the dealer has the wiggle room to "overpay" on a trade in and make up for it easily. If they sense that you're hung up on trade in cost--but not caring too much about what the new car costs--they are more than willing to fudge the numbers "in your favor". [Not trying to finagle the numbers out of you, just pointing out, it's all a shell game at the dealer.]

Mostly always is.

Last time I used KBB to figure out my bottom-line value I'd accept on my trade was 3 years ago buying the RAM. They played the usual games and I played right along too. The KBB numbers might not be accurate, but they're in the ballpark at least so it's a good reference to have.

 

[macarose]

KBB underpriced older vehicles so that dealers can make more money on their trade-ins.

It's not remotely accurate. Even for new cars they tend to have a scattered approach to valuation which is why their parents company no longer uses them.

 

[2heeldrive]

Yeah but what was OTD cost? I mean, if you paid MSRP (let alone more) the dealer has the wiggle room to "overpay" on a trade in and make up for it easily. If they sense that you're hung up on trade in cost--but not caring too much about what the new car costs--they are more than willing to fudge the numbers "in your favor". [Not trying to finagle the numbers out of you, just pointing out, it's all a shell game at the dealer.]

I never even talk about trading my car until the deal is done for the new one. Treat them as completely separate transactions and you will have a better chance of winning the game.