Kay: "Iraq had no WMD"

[buster]

Interesting details are now emerging that Sadam didn't have WMD or maybe I should say doesn't have any WMD as of now. This is going to play into the hands of the Dems. If Kerry or Edwards wins the nomination, it's trouble for Bush. I think either one of these two will be much stronger in the debates againsy Bush. Bush isn't a good debater. His thoughts stumble out of his mouth. Doesn't mean he is bad, but a great communicator is a huge plus IMO. Republicans are concerned now that Dean is out of the picture. Speaking of Dean (who I don't like by the way), why the hell his everyone making such a big freaking deal over his yelling?

[ January 25, 2004, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[DJ]

Do you want someone who is not capable of keeping his cool in control of the most powerful military the world has ever known. I know the pres. is not a dictator and could not order an attack spur of the moment for little reason, but still I know I want a cool head in office.

Kay has released a statment that says basically that he was full of #$%& the other day and that the truth as he sees it is there were just no weapons ready to go at this time. On the WDM thing he had them at one point and had the ability to make more again, it is likely that what he had was destroyed and moved or buried in the middle of the desert. You got to love the media though I keep hearing them say no banned weapons found yet, gee I seem to remember them finding a couple banned mobile missle trucks before they even reached Bagdad. Fox news is particularly entertaining, they scroll one thing and if you listed they are contradicting themselves at that same moment.

Media is about as honest as a politicians, I try to listen to several sources and see if I can decipher the truth from there. I would like to see NPRs funding yanked too, any politician willing to do that would be a step closer to getting my vote.

 

[Drew99GT]

quote:

---

Originally posted by DJ:
Do you want someone who is not capable of keeping his cool in control of the most powerful military the world has ever known. I know the pres. is not a dictator and could not order an attack spur of the moment for little reason, but still I know I want a cool head in office.

Kay has released a statment that says basically that he was full of #$%& the other day and that the truth as he sees it is there were just no weapons ready to go at this time. On the WDM thing he had them at one point and had the ability to make more again, it is likely that what he had was destroyed and moved or buried in the middle of the desert. You got to love the media though I keep hearing them say no banned weapons found yet, gee I seem to remember them finding a couple banned mobile missle trucks before they even reached Bagdad. Fox news is particularly entertaining, they scroll one thing and if you listed they are contradicting themselves at that same moment.

Media is about as honest as a politicians, I try to listen to several sources and see if I can decipher the truth from there. I would like to see NPRs funding yanked too, any politician willing to do that would be a step closer to getting my vote.

---

So your saying it was worth over 500 American lives to go to Iraq on the basis of "WMD related program activities" or whatever the hell W said in his speech? It was worth it to bascially have started a civil war there, and to eventually spend over 500 billion dollars? It was worth it when there are threats to the US that exceed Iraq's threat 10 fold? Yea, they found banned missles. Those missles could barely reach Isreal, let alone the US!

On to the subject of keeping cool, did W? He's the one ranting and raving about the threat

. He doesn't exactly seem to in control of things at the moment. The whole thing sticks to high heaven. Bush has got to go. And yea, I know regime change was the "policy" of the US since 98, but Clinton new better than to go in there unilaterally because he knew the UN and the rest of the world would not buy it, just like is happening right now. There have been more experts saying that a civil war would erupt in Iraq if you tried to having an inclusive state covering various ethnic "nations", than said it would be a great idea to go in there with a democracy. Each faction in Iraq fundamentally either wants absolute power in this "democracy", or it's own nation state.

"rant off"

 

[mormit]

We got Punk'd.

I too believed the WMD arguement last year. I put stock in Powell's agruement. Unfortunately, this administration has burned most of their credibility.

Had there truely been WMD and our motivation to invade had been to protect ourselves from the use of such weapons, don't you think that securing the weapons sites should have been our first priority? Yes, we wanted to preserve Iraq's oil infrastructure, but this was about protecting our butts first and foremest. It was either gross negligence that the sites were not secured immediately or it was known all along that there was nothing to find.

Sorry to rant. I just don't appreciate being played.

 

[tweeker43]

if you're thinking of mobile weapons labs, those were actually used for filling artillery balloons. the british sold them to iraq in the '80's. those were same that powell used in his presentation.

 

[Al]

I think it is easy to say bc there were no weapons found in Iraq that this whole war was a "failure". What was accomplished:

1. We ended the regeme of a man dedicated to destroying the U.S. and ruling the Middle East by force.

2. He had unlimited resources to buy bombs and work on WMD. (And we know he had them and used them) We also know that it was impossible to learn about their fate Remember Clinton destroyed the the CIA and its spy capabilities- hmmm.. funny no one (Dems) ever mentions that :rolleyes

3. He was actively supporting the Palastiniens with money. Notice how the bombings are down in Israel. ( I know, I know - Israel is evil..it doesn't matter. )

4. His heir apparants were worse than he was. The amount of future treachery would have been unlimited.

5. The largest oil reserves in the world were going to be used for evil or they would (have been blown up-remember-he had most of them wired.) Can anyone imagine a large portion of those oil wells going up in flames??? It probably would not have been possible to put them out as many are located far from water supplies.

But in the end Bush did (IMHO) the bes thing for the U.S. He may not get elected bc of it. But I believe any unbiased clear thinking person would say that the world will be safer without this mad man. To me that's all that matters. I'm happy its over...

Oh about the 500 dead soldiers. No one is happy about that. It goes with the territory (remember they were volunteers). I could always come back with The DemocRats killed 50,000 (mostly drafted) in a very very meanlingless war Funny the Dems never mention that one.

 

[buster]

quote:

---

1. We ended the regeme of a man dedicated to destroying the U.S. and ruling the Middle East by force.

---

Not so sure of this Al. He was a tyrant, but Al Queda to me is a much greater threat. Republicans are in trouble. When evaluating all of these threats to the US, Iraq never seemed that much of one. For one, we've contained him for years now so why rush to war? On top of huge deficits and spending, Bush has his work cut out for him.

 

[Drew99GT]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Al:
I think it is easy to say bc there were no weapons found in Iraq that this whole war was a "failure". What was accomplished:

1. We ended the regeme of a man dedicated to destroying the U.S. and ruling the Middle East by force.

2. He had unlimited resources to buy bombs and work on WMD. (And we know he had them and used them) We also know that it was impossible to learn about their fate Remember Clinton destroyed the the CIA and its spy capabilities- hmmm.. funny no one (Dems) ever mentions that :rolleyes

3. He was actively supporting the Palastiniens with money. Notice how the bombings are down in Israel. ( I know, I know - Israel is evil..it doesn't matter. )

4. His heir apparants were worse than he was. The amount of future treachery would have been unlimited.

5. The largest oil reserves in the world were going to be used for evil or they would (have been blown up-remember-he had most of them wired.) Can anyone imagine a large portion of those oil wells going up in flames??? It probably would not have been possible to put them out as many are located far from water supplies.

But in the end Bush did (IMHO) the bes thing for the U.S. He may not get elected bc of it. But I believe any unbiased clear thinking person would say that the world will be safer without this mad man. To me that's all that matters. I'm happy its over...

Oh about the 500 dead soldiers. No one is happy about that. It goes with the territory (remember they were volunteers). I could always come back with The DemocRats killed 50,000 (mostly drafted) in a very very meanlingless war Funny the Dems never mention that one.

---

But Al, an unbiased, clear thinking person can also see that things are simply not adding up afterwards. I would feel 1000% better about Bush if he simply came out and said, "we have not found any WMD, we may not ever find any WMD". Telling things straight up in a time like this would go a long ways IMO. If he did that ALONG with highlighting the fact that we liberated an oppressed people and secured a large source of natural resources for the US, I wouldn't have as many problems with the situation.

We're seeing problems though without a doubt. If it were to popular election, many experts have indicated a president would emerge that wants a theocracy dictated by shemian (spelling?) law, or whatever it's called, where women would have less rights than under Sadaam. That same president might be less than willing to be outright capitalist towards the US in terms of allowing unfettered purchasing of Iraqi oil.

Anything we do to furthur our cause there that is not in fundamental allignment with the populas/majority will be viewed negatively. Polls do indicate that the majority of Iraqis wanted the US to liberate them, but the same majority wants Islam to to be a strict part of their political/economic system!

 

[keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
If Kerry or Edwards wins the nomination, it's trouble for Bush. I think either one of these two will be much stronger in the debates againsy Bush.

---

Wasn't Al Gore Jr. going to blow Bush away in the debates? I wonder what it is about Bush that makes people continually underestimate him.

Dean or Kerry or Clark aren't up to the job.

Keith.

 

[giant_robo]

Ggolly geeezzz what a shocker this is!!!

Hmmmm, well maybe those democRat pagan treehugging dirt worshipper were right for once and we have been neo-conned. But oh, well, it's just my neighbor's kids that are risking their lives and limbs in eyeraq; I'm hoping to pay 10 cents less a gallon next year.

 

[labman]

Does anybody disagree, A Saddam once had WMD, B We didn't know exactly what he had at the start of the war, C He doesn't have any now.

So what if it turned out he had a lot more than we thought he had?

As for the Al Queda, George is keeping them too busy elsewhere to kill anybody here.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

If there are no WMDs and you feel this was critical to the purpose of the invasion, by all means vote DUBYA out.

The facts are that Saddam was not contained.

The oil for food policy was not working as Iraqis were starving and Saddam was laughing all the way to the bank.

Saddam was not allowing inspectors throughout the country for some unknown reason.

Saddam's sons would eventually have gotten into power and a more gruesome two I cannot imagine with the kind of power they might gain through oil wealth.

It's very difficult, if not impossible to say this is worth one American's life. You have the right to choose it wasn't. I wish there were a crystal ball to tell us what might have happened had another path been chosen.

 

[buster]

GM, good point.

 

[Shannow]

The inspectors were actually BACK in Iraq, asking for more time to be sure of the WMD caper.

If you recall, they were forced to LEAVE Iraq due to the Coallition starting the war.

 

[Mystic]

Not so fast before you flat out decide there were no weapons of mass destruction. Kay did leave open the possibility that WMD may have been moved across the border into Syria. The Syrians at first flat out denied this. What are they saying now? They are saying that it is a big border and difficult to patrol and totally control. Also, Iraq is a very big country. Stuff could still be hidden somewhere. And, those weapons depots in Iraq are so huge even today they have not been totally explored. There is some evidence, based on testimony from a Syrian defector, that Iraqi WMD are stored in three locations in Syria.

But GM has a really good point-after Saddam his two sons probably would have been even worse, if that is possible. And you have to continue to ask the question-why, WHY, if he did not have WMD, did he fight with the UN inspectors so much?

There is also the possibility that Saddam would have waited for the UN inspectors to leave, and then start manufacturing WMD. And with his hatred for America, that stuff could have then found its way to terrorist organizations.

When is it ever wrong to remove a mass murderer from power? There are, depending on what estimates you feel may be accurate, 300,000 to 1,000,000 bodies in mass graves in Iraq. When is it necessary for the WORLD to take action? Those were MOSLEMS murdered. Some people have condemned the US for not getting involved in Africa where people were being murdered. How can the critics of the US have it both ways-the United States is condemned if it does nothing and condemned if it does do something. Fact is, the US is going to be condemned no matter what it does.

 

[Shannow]

Mystic,
when the reason for going to war is the alleged incompetence of the U.N., and the WMD (tonnes of it) ready to be launched at less than an hour's notice, then that's what the world would expect to find there.

Colin Powell SHOWED us the pictures of the WMD, on our own T.V. screens, while pointing out how poorly the weapons inspectors were doing in finding the very same stuff that he was showing.

That was the "threat" to which the U.S. was responding in a pre-emptive manner.

Now it's the dethroning of a tyrant, and the liberation of the Iraqis.........all noble causes, yes....but not the reason that we went there.

And not the job of the U.S. and the coallition of the willing.

 

[Mystic]

That is true, Shannow. So either we were lied to, or somebody somewhere along the line lied to the administration, or what WMD there were are either hidden or were removed to another country.

If we were flat out lied to by the Bush administration-I am sorry, but I don't like being lied to. I will vote for Kerry or whoever the Democratic candidate is.

Personally, I have a very strong belief that the WMD were moved to Syria. There are now some hints about this. One Syria official said that because Israelis were saying that Iraqi WMD were in Syria, that was proof that there was none there. But actually, the Israeli Mossad is a force to be reckened with-maybe the best intelligence organization in the world. But they could have their own motives as well, of course. The Syrians have also backed off from the strong denial of the past.

A Syrian defector who was dying (I think from cancer) flat out named three locations in Syria where he claimed that Iraqi WMD were being stored. There are also some ideas that a desert region in Northern Syria could be a possible site.

But again, if we were deliberately lied to, then I am still happy Saddam Hussein is gone, but I will vote Democratic in the next election. I don't like being lied to.

 

[Mystic]

Just one final point. Remember all of those missles that the UN inspectors found that had a range greater then allowed? The missles that Iraq was supposed to destroy?

Where are all of those missles? Where is the wreckage if they were destroyed in the war?

We are not talking some small number of weapons here, or extremely small weapons. You can hide a rifle in a hole in a rock. There were something like 200 of these missles, I believe, if I remember correctly. Where are they? Where is the wreckage?

 

[Shannow]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystic:
But again, if we were deliberately lied to, then I am still happy Saddam Hussein is gone, but I will vote Democratic in the next election. I don't like being lied to.

---

Mystic, I too am happy that he's no longer in circulation. I hope that our countries can put the place back together for the better life of the people.

I'm not happy how we came to be there, particularly in light of the last few weeks.

And if we were lied to, then our current Prime Minister will be looking for another job, I'm sure.

Cheers

 

[Mystic]

Not to mention Blair in England! He may be history in any case. But he surely will be history but there was lying involved in order to get us into the war. It is getting late and I am going to bed-I have to work tomorrow. I will send you a private message on some of the sites and stuff I have discovered and see what you think, if you don't mind.