Kawasaki atv vtwin UOA's

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kawie_guy

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utah,usa
Hello all.
smile.gif


I've got a dilemma. I have tried a bunch of different oils (had UOA's done on lots of them) in my Kawasaki atv, and I keep seeing a reoccurring theme. Oil disappears in this engine. Syns, dinos, HDEO's, blends, doesn't matter. I've tried them all. It did this from early on in stock form, and continued after a top end rebuild. It goes through about 2 to 4 oz. for every tank of gas, unless I'm going slow. I'm normally not bothered by having to add a little oil, but this summer, I'm going on a grand tour from border to border of my state, and having to pack a couple quarts of oil with me is just not going to be practical. So I'm looking for something to fix the issue (aside from putting new rings and seals in it which didn't help much last time).

A little background on the quad:
It was broken in properly, and has been very well maintained. I average about 3000 miles a year on it, all in dirt.
Has lots of power, never failed me, and runs well. It smokes a bit on startup when it's cold out, but pretty sure that's due to forged pistons and/or valve seals. Goes away when it warms up. It's been built up a bit with 2mm overbore, high comp wiseco pistons, bigger cams, advanced timing, performance clutching, etc etc. It's run from 1200 rpms to about 8500 rpms max, but usually at around 5000 I would say. My temps here can be from 10 degrees F to over 100 F. And I do ride year round, rain or shine. This quad never sits more than 6 or 7 days.

Now, all the oils I've tried have been 40 weight on the upper end. So what I'm contemplating doing is going to a higher weight oil in hopes of mitigating the oil consumption. Kawie recommends a 10w-40 for most situations, but lists a wide variety as acceptable.
So, I've been hearing good things about the new Amsoil 20w50 Vtwin, and Maxima Extra 4 15w-50. I'm wondering what the opinions are of these two oils, and if there are any others I should look at?
I'm just thinking this engine is one of those flukes, and that it wants a heavier oil.

The best UOA I've gotten on this bike was with Amsoil Metric 10w-40.
aluminum 15
iron 22
moly 48
phosphorus 1270
zinc 1480
Susvisc@210F 71.1
flash 405
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
996 miles
1.5 quarts added in OCI


The latest UOA was Rotella T6 5w40

Aluminum 15
Iron 34
moly 68
phosphorous 1101
zinc 1261
susvisc@210F 65.2
flash 410
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
1,058 miles
1 quart added in OCI

Any thoughts or comments? All are welcomed!
Thank you.
 
My 08 Brute Force has used zero oil the past 7 years, change it once a year. Only play with it about 10 days a years in Moab though, in the Winter and Fall so it sees all temps. Bone stock internals though. I've been running anything 5w-40 though, change it out once a year. Yours carb or EFI?
 
Originally Posted By: kawie_guy
It's been built up a bit with 2mm overbore, high comp wiseco pistons,


I'll bet you $100 that cylinder bore isn't perfectly round.
 
New seals were put in according to the builder, but who knows for sure.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: kawie_guy
It's been built up a bit with 2mm overbore, high comp wiseco pistons,


I'll bet you $100 that cylinder bore isn't perfectly round.



Could be. Would be my luck.
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I'd start with a leak down test.


Yeah, I'll do that later. I know it's getting by the pistons or the valves, etc. What I'm wanting for now is a thicker oil to see if it mitigates the consumption. I've never tried the Amsoil 20w50 or the Extra4 15w50, but they seem like a good place to start.
 
I hear you.

I'd pick the Amsoil 20-50 because of its stronger HTHS and very low NOACK #.

One of the guys who comes to our meets stopped the oil from weeping out of his crankcase vents on his Harley by switching to Amsoil 20-50 MC. Hardly an apples to apples comparison, but worth noting.
 
Originally Posted By: kawie_guy
Hello all.
smile.gif


I've got a dilemma. I have tried a bunch of different oils (had UOA's done on lots of them) in my Kawasaki atv, and I keep seeing a reoccurring theme. Oil disappears in this engine. Syns, dinos, HDEO's, blends, doesn't matter. I've tried them all. It did this from early on in stock form, and continued after a top end rebuild. It goes through about 2 to 4 oz. for every tank of gas, unless I'm going slow. I'm normally not bothered by having to add a little oil, but this summer, I'm going on a grand tour from border to border of my state, and having to pack a couple quarts of oil with me is just not going to be practical. So I'm looking for something to fix the issue (aside from putting new rings and seals in it which didn't help much last time).

A little background on the quad:
It was broken in properly, and has been very well maintained. I average about 3000 miles a year on it, all in dirt.
Has lots of power, never failed me, and runs well. It smokes a bit on startup when it's cold out, but pretty sure that's due to forged pistons and/or valve seals. Goes away when it warms up. It's been built up a bit with 2mm overbore, high comp wiseco pistons, bigger cams, advanced timing, performance clutching, etc etc. It's run from 1200 rpms to about 8500 rpms max, but usually at around 5000 I would say. My temps here can be from 10 degrees F to over 100 F. And I do ride year round, rain or shine. This quad never sits more than 6 or 7 days.

Now, all the oils I've tried have been 40 weight on the upper end. So what I'm contemplating doing is going to a higher weight oil in hopes of mitigating the oil consumption. Kawie recommends a 10w-40 for most situations, but lists a wide variety as acceptable.
So, I've been hearing good things about the new Amsoil 20w50 Vtwin, and Maxima Extra 4 15w-50. I'm wondering what the opinions are of these two oils, and if there are any others I should look at?
I'm just thinking this engine is one of those flukes, and that it wants a heavier oil.

The best UOA I've gotten on this bike was with Amsoil Metric 10w-40.
aluminum 15
iron 22
moly 48
phosphorus 1270
zinc 1480
Susvisc@210F 71.1
flash 405
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
996 miles
1.5 quarts added in OCI


The latest UOA was Rotella T6 5w40

Aluminum 15
Iron 34
moly 68
phosphorous 1101
zinc 1261
susvisc@210F 65.2
flash 410
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
1,058 miles
1 quart added in OCI

Any thoughts or comments? All are welcomed!
Thank you.




from V Force John.. a guru on kawis

from my experiences and motors Ive rebuilt that have used synthetic like mobil1, amsoil, royal purple. the wear in the motor isn't caused by bad oil. I believe the oil runs too thin when hot and can find its way to cavitation, or find it's way past the oil bearing on the left of the crankshaft.

I had a guy JUST LAST WEEK!! member from on here. he came up to buy ANOTHER crankshaft. his machine was NOT abused, its stock and in amazing shape. he didn't head the warning about using royal purple and it cost him another crankshaft.

on the other hand.

a 730cc motor I built back in 2005 (yes 7 years old) raced me with my can am 1000 and BEAT ME. this motor is running rotella 15-40 and was a race bike for GNCC and AGP NEVER FAILED YET!! and still runs strong or stronger than the day I dynotuned it.


ask yourself. spend $$$$$$ on the expensive snake oils. or buy a cheap [censored] gallon of rotella 15-40 and prevent this.

you can think, do and believe what you want.


From: http://www.kawieriders.com/forum/kawasak...e-force-11.html
 
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Originally Posted By: kawie_guy
Hello all.
smile.gif


I've got a dilemma. I have tried a bunch of different oils (had UOA's done on lots of them) in my Kawasaki atv, and I keep seeing a reoccurring theme. Oil disappears in this engine. Syns, dinos, HDEO's, blends, doesn't matter. I've tried them all. It did this from early on in stock form, and continued after a top end rebuild. It goes through about 2 to 4 oz. for every tank of gas, unless I'm going slow. I'm normally not bothered by having to add a little oil, but this summer, I'm going on a grand tour from border to border of my state, and having to pack a couple quarts of oil with me is just not going to be practical. So I'm looking for something to fix the issue (aside from putting new rings and seals in it which didn't help much last time).

A little background on the quad:
It was broken in properly, and has been very well maintained. I average about 3000 miles a year on it, all in dirt.
Has lots of power, never failed me, and runs well. It smokes a bit on startup when it's cold out, but pretty sure that's due to forged pistons and/or valve seals. Goes away when it warms up. It's been built up a bit with 2mm overbore, high comp wiseco pistons, bigger cams, advanced timing, performance clutching, etc etc. It's run from 1200 rpms to about 8500 rpms max, but usually at around 5000 I would say. My temps here can be from 10 degrees F to over 100 F. And I do ride year round, rain or shine. This quad never sits more than 6 or 7 days.

Now, all the oils I've tried have been 40 weight on the upper end. So what I'm contemplating doing is going to a higher weight oil in hopes of mitigating the oil consumption. Kawie recommends a 10w-40 for most situations, but lists a wide variety as acceptable.
So, I've been hearing good things about the new Amsoil 20w50 Vtwin, and Maxima Extra 4 15w-50. I'm wondering what the opinions are of these two oils, and if there are any others I should look at?
I'm just thinking this engine is one of those flukes, and that it wants a heavier oil.

The best UOA I've gotten on this bike was with Amsoil Metric 10w-40.
aluminum 15
iron 22
moly 48
phosphorus 1270
zinc 1480
Susvisc@210F 71.1
flash 405
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
996 miles
1.5 quarts added in OCI


The latest UOA was Rotella T6 5w40

Aluminum 15
Iron 34
moly 68
phosphorous 1101
zinc 1261
susvisc@210F 65.2
flash 410
insolubles trace
antifreeze pos
1,058 miles
1 quart added in OCI

Any thoughts or comments? All are welcomed!
Thank you.




from V Force John.. a guru on kawis

from my experiences and motors Ive rebuilt that have used synthetic like mobil1, amsoil, royal purple. the wear in the motor isn't caused by bad oil. I believe the oil runs too thin when hot and can find its way to cavitation, or find it's way past the oil bearing on the left of the crankshaft.

I had a guy JUST LAST WEEK!! member from on here. he came up to buy ANOTHER crankshaft. his machine was NOT abused, its stock and in amazing shape. he didn't head the warning about using royal purple and it cost him another crankshaft.

on the other hand.

a 730cc motor I built back in 2005 (yes 7 years old) raced me with my can am 1000 and BEAT ME. this motor is running rotella 15-40 and was a race bike for GNCC and AGP NEVER FAILED YET!! and still runs strong or stronger than the day I dynotuned it.


ask yourself. spend $$$$$$ on the expensive snake oils. or buy a cheap [censored] gallon of rotella 15-40 and prevent this.

you can think, do and believe what you want.


From: http://www.kawieriders.com/forum/kawasak...e-force-11.html


Read that quote of his before. Never could understand why he'd lump RP in with Amsoil and M1. Obviously the guy who had to get a new crank was using RP.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I hear you.

I'd pick the Amsoil 20-50 because of its stronger HTHS and very low NOACK #.

One of the guys who comes to our meets stopped the oil from weeping out of his crankcase vents on his Harley by switching to Amsoil 20-50 MC. Hardly an apples to apples comparison, but worth noting.


Interesting. Thank you. I've got a few weep spots I wouldn't mind getting rid of. The rubber plug holding the crank position sensor and stator wire is getting messy on high rpm runs.

How are the ester-based oils for hydrolizing? Maxima says their oils don't latch onto water like ester based refrigerants, but I've grown leary of verbal claims.
 
Last edited:
i've tested maxima 4extra and it was pretty awesome
its price is pretty crazy as well

only the newest amsoils are good...previous (probably cant buy them anymore) didnt last
and even the amsoil hotline said that oci's were 5hrs

the 5w40 would be most likely to smoke and be gone

the thicker you to the better chance you have of zero consumption
now ambient temps will tell you how thick you can safely go on cold crank

yeah either non-round cylinders - ie improper ring seal in any form
rings in upside down
bad valve seals

steve
 
Originally Posted By: sunruh
i've tested maxima 4extra and it was pretty awesome
its price is pretty crazy as well

only the newest amsoils are good...previous (probably cant buy them anymore) didnt last
and even the amsoil hotline said that oci's were 5hrs

the 5w40 would be most likely to smoke and be gone

the thicker you to the better chance you have of zero consumption
now ambient temps will tell you how thick you can safely go on cold crank

yeah either non-round cylinders - ie improper ring seal in any form
rings in upside down
bad valve seals

steve


Thank you Steve.
I don't mind paying more for the Extra4 if it will work well and stop the consumption issues.
So far, the only 40 weight oil that stayed 40 was the Amsoil. These Kawie v twins have a maze of big gear wheels inside that must be really hard on oil. I'm hoping these 50 weights stay in range a little better.

Do you have a link to your Extra4 15w50 testing?
 
Originally Posted By: Bonz
Looks like it tested positive for antifreeze? That doesn’t sound like a healthy condition?


Yeah, but I'm not sure about that one. I've heard Blackstone only says its coolant by judging sodium and potassium levels against an average? Some of the oils I've used use sodium as a detergent.
Anyhow, my coolant levels in my reservoir don't seem to go down much.
 
My Blackstone reports would show percentage of antifreeze. Not a positive or negative reading. Or did you just translate a percentage reading as a positive reading?
 
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