k &n vs. oem...(continued!)

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Did a comparo test: 5050 miles on a k&n air filter(26,7xx miles on it), silicon: 11.
Then, 4854 miles on a oem(new,Toyota), silicon 10.
Seems pretty close....
 
If you would have went the extra 196 miles to make it a fair test, they may have been equal:) I thought this was going to be another "K&N-haters" thread. I'm glad I read it anyway. I've been using them (and S&B)for 11 years, and I don't plan to return to paper.
 
Thanks for the comparison.
I have a K&N clone filter, same color element and I use the K&N oil on it. My UOA I did with 4,546 miles had 5 Si. I've never tested the oil with an OEM filter, but with those numbers I don't see the need.

For all the bashers out there, they need to post up multiple UOAs - with a K&N and without. If they show elevated Si, then fine go back to paper. It varies by vehicle and use. Without acutal data on your own vehicle, I don't see how someone could say what is better for their car.
 
Interesting comparison. I've used a K&N on my Bronco for years, and do a 'tissue wipe' test on the carb venturies occasionally; they're always cleaner than they were when using a paper filter.

Bring it on, K&N haters, bring it on......
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im planning on cleaning it when my car gets to 50,000 miles. that is about 49,000 miles on the filter.
 
My point is that a brand new or freshly cleaned K&N will generally bring higher si #'s than a unit with a coating of dirt on it. K&N even say that their filters keep out dirt more effectively when dirty.
 
Why do any of you use a K&N? What benefits do you derive if equals the performance of paper filter with respect to filtering?

Regards,

Rich
 
i know alot of people dont like k&n. i know alot of people claim that k&n contaminates mass air flow sensors, but it doesnt. most if not all mass air flow sensors have a function where power is applied to the element to burn off any contaminants during the warm up cycle. k&n it also wont void any warrantys. Its all right on their website.

with that said, i have used k&n in the past, sold it with the car it was installed on. i dont have any more k&n's except on my 70cc honda minibike which the kids run around the yard with. only reason its there is because its cheaper cost than an oem filter. I dont really see anything wrong with using a k&n, except the price usually isnt worth it. how many vehicles actually go a million miles? most vehicles get wrecked, rust apart, or suffer catastrophic engine damage and are not worth repairing before the k&n goes out, so it generally isnt worth the price unless an oem filter costs more.
 
I use a Ractive (k&n clone) b/c it has a heat shield surrounding the cone filter and allows me to run piping to the bottom of the engine bay to collect cold fresh air. This setup does allow more power, b/c its not just a drop-in upgrade. I have not seen any paper filters with a heat shield that would work in my cold air setup.
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And as I've stated before, my UOA after 4,546 miles had 5 Si. That's why I run mine.
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Someone can help me out here, but I believe there is one or two carmakers who mention avoiding oiled gauze filters in their manuals.
 
Again.
The drop in K$N's has a positive effect at 5000 RPM's and above.
Anything under all you get is more engine noise.
Any HP or MPG gain is minimal if at all.
If the product produced more HP and MPG's the vehicle manufacturers would buy it.
Manufacturers would raise their CAFE numbers.
MPG and HP gains would be beneficial for manufacturers.
Why haven't they contracted with K&N?


There's always that free K&N sticker when applied under the hood will get you an extra 5 HP and a couple of MPG gain.
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The whole K&N intake system has benefits.
 
quote:

Someone can help me out here, but I believe there is one or two carmakers who mention avoiding oiled gauze filters in their manuals.

In its Dodge RAM FAQ section Cummins specifically mentioned K&N by name as something to not use on their engines.
But recently that entry has been deleted. Note the missing lines.

Also check out GM on K&N
 
IMHO MAF problems are often the result of over-oiling the filter.

Very little filter oil goes a long way.

I've seen filters that were literally dripping with oil after the owner cleaned it.

While I've never had a problem with my K&N, I'm switching to an AEM dryflow.
 
An above post states in part:

"Any HP or MPG gain is minimal if at all.
If the product produced more HP and MPG's the vehicle manufacturers would buy it.
Manufacturers would raise their CAFE numbers.
MPG and HP gains would be beneficial for manufacturers."

This contains two common misconceptions. I'm not going to address mpg gains as to either misconception, because I've never seen reliable evidence of mpg gains from using a K&N.

The first misconception is that a K&N will only minimally, if at all, increase HP. This is true for some engines. It is not true for others. The dyno tests that I've seen range from a miniscule increase of 1/2 HP or less to an increase of up to 6-8 HP, depending on the engine and/or the existing air intake system. In addition, if you combine a K&N with an air intake system modification or kit, the HP increase is greater than when just switching to a K&N. But again, it all depends on the engine and the existing air intake system. Dyno tests of some engines show that an air intake system modification or kit plus a K&N results in only a 1-2 HP increase. Other engines dyno out an increase of 8-10 HP or more, tho not much more from what I've seen.

You can often increase HP by giving the engine more air to breath, but not all engines. That is, for example, the whole point of a turbocharger or supercharger, each of which forces a large amount of air into the combustion chamber, thereby increasing HP. Some engines can, and will, breath in more air if you install a K&N, and will breath in even more air if you also either modify the air intake system or install an aftermarket or home made air intake kit. On the other hand, some engines come stock from the factory breathing in as much air as they can use and a K&N plus an air intake modification or kit will make more air available, BUT the engine simply won't and doesn't take in more air. On a similar note, you can usually, but not always, increase HP by allowing the engine to exhale quicker and easier, which is why people install aftermarket exhaust kits with larger pipes and more freeflowing mufflers. Here again tho, it also depends on the engine, and dyno tests range from a miniscule 1 HP to 8 or more HP, depending on the engine. Some engines and exhaust systems already, stock from the factory, exhaust the gases as quickly as they possbily can, no matter how much you open up the tailpipe and muffler.

The second misconception is that vehicle manufacturers would install the K&N if it increased HP and since vehicle manufacturers don't install the K&N its evidence that the K&N doesn't increase HP. This is a misconception because in order to maximize the HP increase you also have to modify the air intake system or install an air intake kit to allow for even more of an increased air flow into the engine than if you just installed a K&N. The two together is what increases HP, ON SOME ENGINES. However, when you do this, whether or not the HP increase is minimal or respectable, you ALWAYS increase the noise level considerably, and THAT'S why manufacturers don't install a K&N. Most people don't want noisy engines. This HP vs. noise tradeoff also applies to exhaust systems. The more restrictive the air flow into the engine and the more restrictive the exhaust flow out of the engine, the less noisy the engine is. The less restrictive the inflow and outflow, the noisier the engine is. And the manufacturers know that most people don't want the noise. Of course most kids DO want the noise (and also a lot of people who are past the kid stage) and open up the intake and exhaust to get the noise, even if the resulting HP increase is negligible.
 
quote:

This is a misconception because in order to maximize the HP increase you also have to modify the air intake system or install an air intake kit to allow for even more of an increased air flow into the engine than if you just installed a K&N.

So why manufacturers do not install K&N drop-ins?
 
"So why manufacturers do not install K&N drop-ins?"

The short answer is that engine noise level will increase and manufacturers don't want that increase, because most purchasers want quiet engines. As I said above, this also applies to modifying the air intake system or installing an air intake kit. If you BOTH modity the air intake system or install an air intake kit AND install a K&N, you get a lot more noise increase than only doing one of those two things.
 
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