K&N drop in questions

[mjf6866]

I did a search and couldnt find any threads pertaining to my application so i'm going to ask here:

I'm planning on doing an airbox mod to my 2009 Challenger R/T that a fellow challenger owner did, which involves cutting the lower part of the airbox open for added airflow and adding a K&N drop in filter along with cutting off and sealing where the baffle would go on the air tube inlet.

My main concern is how well do the K&N filters work in terms of filtration and performance with what i'm going to be doing here?

here is a link to the thread if anyone is interested:

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f100/12-441-109-stock-rt-air-intake-36712/

Thanks.

 

[Chris142]

If you go to the store and grab a pre oiled K&N air filter off the shelf. Unwrap the plastic and hold it up to your eye you can easily read the prices on the shelf while looking through the filter.

K&N sells a wrap to put around the air filter to help keep dust out if used in dusty conditions.

I'd stick with a paper filter myself.

 

[Johnny]

I agree with Chris142. Stick with a good paper filter.

 

[spasm3]

don't most used oil analysis with k@n filters show more silicates? I live off a gravel (dirt) road, no way would i run one of these.

 

[mjf6866]

ok, thanks guys. which is a good, high performance paper filter that you would recommend?

 

[RnR]

Sorry to keep piling on here... but when I tried a K&N, I got stranded once when the oil particles drifted to my MAF sensor, fouling it and the computer finally decided to prevent an ignition attempt.

I decided to stick with a Fram paper for the air intake role.

No problems since.

 

[Johnny]

Nothing really wrong with the filter that came in the car. If you want a good aftermarket filter the Amsoil EaA is an excellent filter.

 

[HyundaiGuy]

I've always heard that while Fram oil filters may be referred to as the Orange Can of Death, their air filters are quite good.

Another one here that would not use a K&N- at least not in anything I cared about and wanted to keep long term. Follow the logic:

More air= more power
More air= less filtration

What's "wrong" with the factory MOPAR filter?

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
don't most used oil analysis with k@n filters show more silicates? I live off a gravel (dirt) road, no way would i run one of these.
It depends on where the car is ran. If in some place where it's humid or rains alot there wont be much dust in the air so the K&N would be ok.

But in the desert with dust, dirt roads, ATV's running along the road making dust and natural dust storms.....You get the idea.

 

[mjf6866]

i live in Pittsburgh, PA and it does rain here a good bit, but we do have dry spells here and there. i only run the car on the nice dry days, so dust would be more likely. not like the desert or anything, but driving through constructon areas on a dry day can create an occasional "dust storm."

is that amsoil filter a disposable filter? about how much performance am i really giving up with a "filter" filter over a "free flower" filter?

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: mjf6866
i live in Pittsburgh, PA and it does rain here a good bit, but we do have dry spells here and there. i only run the car on the nice dry days, so dust would be more likely. not like the desert or anything, but driving through constructon areas on a dry day can create an occasional "dust storm."

is that amsoil filter a disposable filter? about how much performance am i really giving up with a "filter" filter over a "free flower" filter?


If you have a stock air box and ducting, you aren't giving up anything that can be measured by using a stock filter.

 

[mjf6866]

Quote:
If you have a stock air box and ducting, you aren't giving up anything that can be measured by using a stock filter.


i am using the stock airbox and tube, but they are modified. the box itself will be opened up on the bottome a lot more and the baffle will be removed off the tube itself. it will allow for much more air to enter the box.

 

[firefighter]

Where is the air filter box located? Is it in the engine compartment? Maybe I don't understand but all this "extra" air you are going to suck in now with this hole in the filter box is going to be HOT engine compartment air. So any extra air flow will do nothing as it will be heated air. I did an experiment at work for someone. He wanted high flow this and that, it took a vaccum gauge and hooked it up to a port on his air filter box, went out and put the vehicle through its paces. When he saw that the restriction under WOT was less then 1/8" of vaccum he decided not to do anything. Just my two cents, I've just seen alot of things at work people did that actually hurt there performance. There car may have been faster though cause there wallet was lighter.

 

[Jim Allen]

If your concern is with performance, you are barking up the wrong tree, IMO. Seldom do any of the drop in filter offer any gains, and if they do (which is seldom), it's very small and at the extreme rpm range (4500+). There is no MPG difference either. On a modern EFI car in everyday driving, your mileage barely changes with a filter that's 8/10 plugged, so it can't improve if you add airflow capacity.

Your link didn't work, so I don't know what the other guy did. If there was any gain, it was likely due to the airbox mods. I've played with stuff like that on my own stuff and in one case, there is some gain... again at the extreme end of the rpm range and basically not noticeable to the driver. You can pick it up on the dyno but it's often within the typical margin for error.

I won't argue with the guy who did the mods, espcailly since I can't read his missive, but a few ponies is hardly worth the effort if you are decreasing filtration efficiency.

You might check with AEM for a drop in panel. They have some very efficient (as good or better than stock) cleanable drop ins that are very robust, but there is no performance advantage... just a very efficient filter.

My opinion is that until you have increased the VE (volumetric efficiency) by a tune or cams, intake mods are generally #2 or 3 on the list. With a stock tune, most cars can't benefit much from an intake (at least in a way that offers good perfomrance for dollar). Also, if you engine can use only X amount of air, then adding capacity won't necessarily do you any good. That goes back tot eh tune. Put a good tune in and the engine might be able to use the increase. Otherwise, it remains unused potential.

 

[bmwtechguy]

Originally Posted By: mjf6866
i live in Pittsburgh, PA and it does rain here a good bit.

is that amsoil filter a disposable filter? about how much performance am i really giving up with a "filter" filter over a "free flower" filter?


The Amsoil EaA air filter is supposed to flow better than standard paper air filter as it loads up, and be more efficient, as in stop more wear-producing small dust particles. They claim to be like 50 times more efficient than a cotton/gauze air filter such as K&N and maintain good air flow as they load up with dirt.

As another poster noted, I can also see way too big of holes through a K&N air filter to consider using one. Also have had to work on too many vehicles which were running poorly due to this "upgrade" air filter. You can read about Amsoil air filters as I did here: http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eaa.aspx

They tell you about filter life and cleaning, etc. Seems fairly foolproof if you are gentle with the compressed air.

There are a couple of Amsoil bitog sponsors here that you could contact for best pricing and good customer service- Pablo or Gary Allan.

BTW, I grew up there in Pittsburgh off Bower Hill Rd.

 

[mjf6866]

thanks guys for all the info. i ended up ordering an Amsoil EaA filter after reading multiple K&N stories of oil coming off the filter and screwing up the MAF sensor and also being able to see right through it. i'd rather have the ease of mind knowing i'm not sandblasting my engine.

about the opening in the airbox, its in the compartment up in the front behind the headlight. people have implemented a tube that acts as a real CAI instead of the pretty looking kind that are up closer to the engine, thus pulling in JUST hot air.

is there a way to attach a picture? i have one of a stock vs modified box.

 

[RTexasF]

I've used K&N filters for so long that you had to order them from England to even obtain one. That was quite a number of years ago and I've yet to have a car go South due to the air filter. Do they admit more dirt? Yes. Have they ever caused me even one single problem? No. Performance gain with a replacement panel filter? No. Performance gain with a cone short ram or cold air intake filter? Yes.

Those that have MAF sensors/intake problems with oil on them undoubtedly cleaned and over oiled the filter. That has never happened to me and I have cleaned & oiled many of these over the years. Now the old V-8s back then didn't really care how dirty the air was as long as they got plenty of it. Newer engines today are much more sensitive to clean intake air I'm sure.

Toyota offers a TRD oiled cotton gauze filter for my 3.5L RAV4 and it maintains the factory warranty. Is it better than the K&N panel replacement? I don't honestly know but I am ordering one. Why? Not for performance because I know that's a joke. I have a tower strut brace which is a real pain in the wazoo to remove in order to just change the air filter. I'll go with the TRD since I won't have to deal with it as often as a paper filter and can re-use it from now on. If I can find a K&N for less moola then I'll go in that direction.
Worried about killing my engine with excess dirt? Not in the least.

 

[kkreit01]

I wouldn't worry about using K&N. However, I wouldn't hack up the OEM box. If you do, you can never go back to stock. I'd save up, and buy a complete intake kit. aFe, AEM, and Amsoil all make performance DRY filters if you are worried about oil-gauzed.

 

[mjf6866]

i already thought of that and bought another R/T stock intake, so i can put mine back if i ever have to take her in for warranty work!

i'll show you what the two look side by side. i dont know how to post a pic i have on my pc to the board.

here is what the guy did:

I decided to work with my air intakes this week as a project. I was looking back through all my old time slips and began to notice since adding the K&N CAI, my mph was lower. So today I did a little testing.

First run was with a stock RT air box, K&N drop in filter, and SRT air tube:
12.52 @ 108.45.

I cooled down for 30 minutes and ran that combo again:
12.49 @ 108.44.

Next was the K&N CAI: Again a 30 minute cool down.
12.58 @ 107.11 I imediately pulled that piece of junk off!!

Lastly I used my modified RT tube, K&N drop in. and the RT box. The RT tube necks down smaller in size and imo forces the air in the TB better. Results:
12.47 @ 110

Then my best ever 12.44 At 109.27

 

[Steve S]

The K@N is a fools filter. They are not used in anything expensive that has to last a long time and racers use them cause of contingency $$$$ and they do a good job at that.