JWST finds "Strongest evidence of life..."
- Thread starter JeffKeryk
- Start date
Refreshing to hear this. Humans are usually egotistical and think they know everything, like Neil deGrasse Tyson.
But for most engines, the best air filtration keep the most stuff out of the oil making it the best oil filter
Why not? It would only take roughly 210,452 years to get there. If we start today..
I've seen the "documentary" Alien: Prometheus!
I'd forgotten about that...and it is a very cool theory! Would be wild if we found out it to be true!
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
Roughly? Dat's pretty exact
It's also roughly how long my wife takes when she says she's just going to run in a store and grab something.
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
It has also without a doubt shown us that massive expeditures that yield little to no benefit, has destroyed power nations in the past, arguably the most powerful ever.
We will disagree here. But I agree that allocation is an issue, which is to the point of my original post.
Whoa man, you mean to tell me that Chernobyl has things that survive in it's post apocalyptic barren wasteland?!?!
dnewton3
Staff member
I have my opinions which are, let's say, "traditional". But I'm always open to conversation and learning. However, here's what perplexes me ...
There exists, by most agreements of standards, an unlimited universe. Conceptually, the universe is the only example of infinite possibilities... simply put, the universe has no limits and therefore the concept of "life" and "time" have no limits. OK - I can accept that as the premise for conversation.
Then why is it that "life" (very loosely defined) isn't abundant in many forms in a myriad of states of being, and advancement, and easily found elsewhere?
Earth has one basic life form; we're carbon based. But there are (literally) perhaps a trillion* of variations of "life" on our planet. Reptiles, birds, primates, mammals, fishes, insects, trees, grasses, weeds, shrubs, bacteria, viruses ... from single cell organisms to multicellular complex species. It's difficult to comprehend how complex "life" is on this rock we inhabit. Even if you disagree with the "trillion" figure, you have to admit it is massive in its depth and breadth.
Yet, we have, to this date, never found any evidence of such massive life advancement in a mega-form extrapolation anywhere but here on our planet.
If we also accept the law of averages in a statistical sense of "normal", then we would be reasonable in our belief that Earth is "average"; it should be neither on the leading edge nor the trailing end of development. The galaxies (and their solar systems) at the outer edge of the universe are WAY older than ours. So if there were any sense of "time" relative to development of "life", then we'd be somewhere in the middle, would we not? And "life" at the leading edges would have had a nearly-infinite head-start on being more developed than us. If "life" is abundant elsewhere in the universe, would not those life forms be easily discovered? Would they not be reaching out? Or, did they check out Earth a few million years ago, find no "intelligent" life, and move on past us; writing off Earth as a non-event - unworthy of exploration? Advanced alien life forms; sure, they may well exist. But how long did it take for them to become "advanced"? Life here on Earth has gone nearly exponential in development in just 100+ years; from steam engines to rocket ships. From basic wired lights to self-learning AI. And yet "life" elsewhere hasn't found a way to hyper accelerate, given that it's billions and trillions of years ahead of us?
Some have theorized that life on Earth is simply a wildly optimistic cosmic mistake; a culmination of the right elements conforming amino acids and proteins into mass development and diversification, resulting in a happenstance combination of opportunities and luck. I have my doubts.
I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. I'm open to opposing views. I think the truth is somewhere between science and other views. But I just can't wrap my head around the fact that if we accept a purely accidental development of life on Earth, and we believe time/space are infinite, then how is it we're the only example with (literally) a trillion variations of life, and we can't hardly find anything else, anywhere. And "it" hasn't found us, either ...
* https://www.sciencealert.com/the-la...ated-that-earth-is-home-to-1-trillion-species
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_life_forms
There exists, by most agreements of standards, an unlimited universe. Conceptually, the universe is the only example of infinite possibilities... simply put, the universe has no limits and therefore the concept of "life" and "time" have no limits. OK - I can accept that as the premise for conversation.
Then why is it that "life" (very loosely defined) isn't abundant in many forms in a myriad of states of being, and advancement, and easily found elsewhere?
Earth has one basic life form; we're carbon based. But there are (literally) perhaps a trillion* of variations of "life" on our planet. Reptiles, birds, primates, mammals, fishes, insects, trees, grasses, weeds, shrubs, bacteria, viruses ... from single cell organisms to multicellular complex species. It's difficult to comprehend how complex "life" is on this rock we inhabit. Even if you disagree with the "trillion" figure, you have to admit it is massive in its depth and breadth.
Yet, we have, to this date, never found any evidence of such massive life advancement in a mega-form extrapolation anywhere but here on our planet.
If we also accept the law of averages in a statistical sense of "normal", then we would be reasonable in our belief that Earth is "average"; it should be neither on the leading edge nor the trailing end of development. The galaxies (and their solar systems) at the outer edge of the universe are WAY older than ours. So if there were any sense of "time" relative to development of "life", then we'd be somewhere in the middle, would we not? And "life" at the leading edges would have had a nearly-infinite head-start on being more developed than us. If "life" is abundant elsewhere in the universe, would not those life forms be easily discovered? Would they not be reaching out? Or, did they check out Earth a few million years ago, find no "intelligent" life, and move on past us; writing off Earth as a non-event - unworthy of exploration? Advanced alien life forms; sure, they may well exist. But how long did it take for them to become "advanced"? Life here on Earth has gone nearly exponential in development in just 100+ years; from steam engines to rocket ships. From basic wired lights to self-learning AI. And yet "life" elsewhere hasn't found a way to hyper accelerate, given that it's billions and trillions of years ahead of us?
Some have theorized that life on Earth is simply a wildly optimistic cosmic mistake; a culmination of the right elements conforming amino acids and proteins into mass development and diversification, resulting in a happenstance combination of opportunities and luck. I have my doubts.
I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. I'm open to opposing views. I think the truth is somewhere between science and other views. But I just can't wrap my head around the fact that if we accept a purely accidental development of life on Earth, and we believe time/space are infinite, then how is it we're the only example with (literally) a trillion variations of life, and we can't hardly find anything else, anywhere. And "it" hasn't found us, either ...
* https://www.sciencealert.com/the-la...ated-that-earth-is-home-to-1-trillion-species
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_life_forms
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@JeffKeryk This stuff is what I read to blow my mind for the day.
Exploration! & Science!!!!!
This new telescope should give us even more answers than Hubel or however you spell it. Excellent idea to post something "Out of this world". ha!
Exploration! & Science!!!!!
This new telescope should give us even more answers than Hubel or however you spell it. Excellent idea to post something "Out of this world". ha!
We are living in extraordinary times. If you have any interest, I highly suggest you spend some time researching the JWST exploration.@JeffKeryk This stuff is what I read to blow my mind for the day.
Exploration! & Science!!!!!
This new telescope should give us even more answers than Hubel or however you spell it. Excellent idea to post something "Out of this world". ha!
Here's the WikiPedia page.
Not sure where you live, but around here there are numerous free to the public lectures wifey and I attend. The Stanford KIPAC series is flat out spectacular, but the local Community College lectures are mind blowing as well.
Well said, IMO. I assume, for better or worse, "life" is referring to carbon based life forms, as you pointed out. Is there the possibility of far far more types? Why not? Of course as self centered humans, we tend to think we are kings and important, so there's that.
What I love about Science is it attempts to take a systematic approach with definitions so that we may understand, communicate and teach each other.
It's kinda nice to realize that I know I only know a little. So many have to have all the answers and are only open to what they wanna hear... Rough way to go.
IMO, our world would be a better, more prosperous and safer place if we focused on Science rather than what's going on today.
These lectures are a breath of fresh air. Oh yeah, and the Universe is big. That's all I can say.
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@dnewton3
All of your thoughts on "why haven't we had contact" could be exactly why there hasn't been...that we know of.
I don't know who said it, but it was in a debate with people much more brainy than me: "It's ok say say "I don't know."" It gave me comfort. I don't HAVE to have all the questions answered and enjoy the ride of following others finding out things that are beyond me.
Time is relative and just like the distances of the universe, another idea to wrap ones head around. It may be that in the almost 14 billion years the universe has been, there have been planets just like ours that have gone through their life cycle already, some ended early (massive asteroid impact), those equal to ours, and those just beginning. The universe has a cycle of life, but much larger scale.
All of your thoughts on "why haven't we had contact" could be exactly why there hasn't been...that we know of.
Considering all the random things that happen and given enough time, it doesn't seem out of the question. Combining the above quote with the question of why we haven't had contact, it make more sense that it is random and takes a special set of circumstances. After millions of years, the dinosaurs got taken out by a random big rock and almost all life with it. If it happened to be much bigger, we would probably not be here asking these questions!
I don't know who said it, but it was in a debate with people much more brainy than me: "It's ok say say "I don't know."" It gave me comfort. I don't HAVE to have all the questions answered and enjoy the ride of following others finding out things that are beyond me.
<----"Shoe Me" State
/ Although the wife was born in your great state of Fresno. I've been looking at all the images that hit the news or YT and they are quite stellar. Followed along & watched the extraordinary accomplishment of JWST. This stuff is right up my alley & I don't have preconceived notions about what I don't know from our being in this vast space. I follow the science & it is way more interesting than anything us humans tend to claim that don't follow the evidence.
