JASO MA/MA2 VS JASO MB, does really matter on scooter ?

[TrialKid]

Manual says JASO MB 10W30 on a HONDA SH 150 2025 model

Is dry clutch CVT, with NO oil filter (just an oil screen) and takes 800ml.

If I add JASO MA/MA2 is there any PROS and CONS ?

Same oil says needs for the gearbox (seperate) JASO MB 10W30

Thanks in advance

 

[NiwradND]

I use Rotella T6 in mine. 5w40

 

[TrialKid]

I use Rotella T6 in mine. 5w40

This I can’t find it on Greece and don’t know if available to Europe.

 

[Japanese]

Same oil says needs for the gearbox (seperate) JASO MB 10W30

Here, this is the oil for scooters with CVT or dry clutch:
https://www.motul.com/el-GR/products/58010?id=58010&product=SCOOTER+POWER+4T+MB+10W-30

Product Data Sheet
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/mo...r_4t_mb_10w-30_en_fr_motul_58010_20241211.pdf

 

[Japanese]

You might be fine with JASO MA/MA2 too. The correct oil is the one above. However, if you cannot find it, you can use this one which is JASO MA2:
https://www.motul.com/el-GR/products/16501?id=16501&product=MOTUL+7100+10W-30+4T

Produc Data Sheet
https://oilgroupbg.com/pdf/motul/motul-7100-4t-10w30.pdf

Either of those oils should be about €15 - 20 for a liter.

 

[TrialKid]

You might be fine with JASO MA/MA2 too. The correct oil is the one above. However, if you cannot find it, you can use this one which is JASO MA2:
https://www.motul.com/el-GR/products/16501?id=16501&product=MOTUL+7100+10W-30+4T

Produc Data Sheet
https://oilgroupbg.com/pdf/motul/motul-7100-4t-10w30.pdf

Either of those oils should be about €15 - 20 for a liter.

I already see them, many thanks

But what is the difference in additives JASO MA/MA2 VS MB

The percentage on Molybdenum ?

 

[Japanese]

I already see them, many thanks

But what is the difference in additives JASO MA/MA2 VS MB

The percentage on Molybdenum ?

I'm not sure what is the difference regarding formulation ingredients. It probably has more friction modifiers like molybdenum which will be good for the gears, but not for a wet clutch.
However, the main difference is that JASO MA/MA2 is for wet clutch applications and JASO MB is for gears only (CVT) and not wet clutch. But most likely you'll be fine with JASO MA/MA2 as well.

For example, this motorcycle gear oil, regardless that is synthetic blend, is not JASO rated, however it's API GL-4 and is for wet clutch too. It also might be a good and also a cheaper option. It's very popular among scooter and 2-stroke riders that have separate engine and gear oils. So, this oil is for the grears only, not the engine

However, it will be a bit thicker than 10W-30.
https://www.motul.com/el-GR/products/74300?id=74300&product=MOTUL+TRANSOIL+EXPERT+10W-40

Product Data Sheet
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/TRANSOIL_EXPERT_10W-40_en_FR_motul_20210426.pdf

Another JASO MB oil but is 10W-40 synthetic blend:
https://www.motul.com/el-GR/products/57701?id=57701&product=SCOOTER+EXPERT+4T+MB+10W-40

PDS
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/motul_scooter_expert_4t_mb_10w-40_en_fr_motul_57701_20241211.pdf

 

[Greenbeforeblue]

IMO, the small oil volume in the scooter makes it more important to use the recommended oil. I also change scooter oil much sooner for the same reason.

 

[iahawk]

A scooter engine with a dry clutch does NOT need to use dedicated motorcycle oil! this question gets asked over and over on forums. Motorcycle oil is for a shared sump with a wet clutch. With a dry clutch you can use just about any quality oil that you feel like.

 

[Japanese]

A scooter engine with a dry clutch does NOT need to use dedicated motorcycle oil! this question gets asked over and over on forums. Motorcycle oil is for a shared sump with a wet clutch. With a dry clutch you can use just about any quality oil that you feel like.

Well, then why don't you use motor oil in your car's gearbox/transmission and vise versa?
Cars have dry clutch, right?

 

[iahawk]

Well, then why don't you use motor oil in your car's gearbox/transmission and vise versa?
Cars have dry clutch, right?

Dude, what are you even talking about?? Are you seriously asking this?

 

[Japanese]

Dude, what are you even talking about?? Are you seriously asking this?

Yes, I'm serious. Can you explain it to me?
He is asking for both engine oil and gear oil that are separate sumps on his scooter.
So, what oil do you recommend?

 

[Oliveoil2]

The answer to your question is no because your scooter doesn’t have a wet clutch. Use any 10w-30.

 

[TrialKid]

A scooter engine with a dry clutch does NOT need to use dedicated motorcycle oil! this question gets asked over and over on forums. Motorcycle oil is for a shared sump with a wet clutch. With a dry clutch you can use just about any quality oil that you feel like.

indeed,no wet clutch like cars

So any oil is OK for the engine with the same viscosity 10/30

 

[TrialKid]

I'm not sure what is the difference regarding formulation ingredients. It probably has more friction modifiers like molybdenum which will be good for the gears, but not for a wet clutch.
However, the main difference is that JASO MA/MA2 is for wet clutch applications and JASO MB is for gears only (CVT) and not wet clutch. But most likely you'll be fine with JASO MA/MA2 as well.

For example, this motorcycle gear oil, regardless that is synthetic blend, is not JASO rated, however it's API GL-4 and is for wet clutch too. It also might be a good and also a cheaper option. It's very popular among scooter and 2-stroke riders that have separate engine and gear oils. So, this oil is for the grears only, not the engine

However, it will be a bit thicker than 10W-30.
https://www.motul.com/el-GR/products/74300?id=74300&product=MOTUL+TRANSOIL+EXPERT+10W-40

Product Data Sheet
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/TRANSOIL_EXPERT_10W-40_en_FR_motul_20210426.pdf

Another JASO MB oil but is 10W-40 synthetic blend:
https://www.motul.com/el-GR/products/57701?id=57701&product=SCOOTER+EXPERT+4T+MB+10W-40

PDS
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/motul_scooter_expert_4t_mb_10w-40_en_fr_motul_57701_20241211.pdf

That’s a another question about manual calls for 10/30 MB also for the final drive gearbox

But as you said GL4 rating should be ok also for wet clutch, so I don’t understand why they don’t add alternative option in the owners manual

Many thanks

 

[burbguy82]

Dude, what are you even talking about?? Are you seriously asking this?

 

[car54]

My yamaha aircooled scooter (2008 Vino 125) called for 10w-30 and was really loud after long rides, i figured from oil thinning at high temps, but lacked good test equipment back then. I switched to Valvoline VR1 synthetic 20w-50 for most of its life, then Schaeffers s9000 5w-50. Recently I picked up a bottle of jaso MB maxima scooter full syn 10w-40. I swear the change in viscosity made it quicker. Or maybe the friction modifiers reduced friction. Or the placebo effect is really real.

So far no increased noise on the new lower viscosity. Maybe jumping from 10w-30 to 20w-50 was a mistake. I’m sure the increased drag is not insignificant on such a small engine that runs at 100% load all the time.

Out of curiosity I examined it with a thermal camera today after my 22 mile ride to work. It’s currently 57 degrees F ambient. The cylinder head was 350F. Oil pan was 213F. Exhaust port on the head was in the 500’s

I’m sure those numbers will be much higher when its 105+ which is why I went with synthetic. Its still shiny aluminum colored inside and no darkened deposits after 20 years and 16,500 miles.

In your liquid cooled sh150 I would go with something like Rotella t5 10w-30 or any good passenger car 10w-30. no issues except cost running a good MA spec moto oil or MB scooter specific oil. Lots out there from Motul, Ipone, Amsoil etc.

 

[Japanese]

I swear the change in viscosity made it quicker.

That is well proven, especially in small engines. Also, the difference b/w 20W-50 and 10W-30 is quite big.

 

[Terry Hennessy]

Found this: "ZDDP forms a protective tribo-film on metal surfaces, preventing metal-on-metal wear in high-stress areas like cam lobes and lifters" MY THOUGHT: I thought above description (MINUS THE "zddp" was the purpose of any/ all motor oils? Have been researching, as at 77-yo, I have NEVER used mower oil or SJ/SL for ZDDP additive in motorcycles or mowers/ OPE? I have seen argument that air cooled runs hotter that water cooled (re: gum/ varnish/ glue vs lube). I see SJ/SL OIL AT ~$20/QT vs <$5/qt, and CANNOT FIND one manufacturer that advertises their mower oil/SJ/SL as "formulated for higher temperature air-cooled 4 cycle engines" or "for less precision small engines" or even any real reason to use/ pay the higher price? Further, I find no literature from small engine manufacturers that says anything that would move you away from automotive SN oils in 4-cycle? I am well aware of owner manuals on 2-cycle air cooled saying NOT to use Marine TWCC designed for cooler running water cooled, and also aware of those that brag they "use TWCC in all their air cooled". I also see my Tecumseh OHV130 manual (A PRESSURE/ OIL FILTER ENGINE) says 30w or 10w30 but DO NOT USE 10W40. Am I wrong and just never found the right Owner Manual?

 

[CleanSump]

The difference is MA/MA2 is for wet clutch, MB is not for wet clutch.
You can use either with a dry clutch. Actually any oil will work if you are mindful of air cooled temps causing breakdown and potential aeration.
Most scooters are DDs owned by non BITOG readers of lower income outside the US and Canada. Most overseas get irregular oil changes of inexpensive oil, usually HDEO.
Step Son is part owner of a scooter/cycle/German car repair shop in Thailand. Where I got the info on scooter owners using the cheapest vice the high end his shop puts in motorcycles and German cars. "High end" being the typical motorcycle and Euro oils we use in the US and Canada, not high end to BITOG members.