It never ceases to amaze

Re-read the post please.

I said remove the OIL FILTER. That means keeping both air filters in place.

Oops sorry. I thought you were talking about air filters. I assumed air filter removal because an engine will not run with no oil filter.
 
Oops sorry. I thought you were talking about air filters. I assumed air filter removal because an engine will not run with no oil filter.
Well, with a typical can filter, you are basically right, they'll run, but not for long, as they'll seize from no lubrication. However, many vehicles, especially nowadays, use a cartridge filter with a permanent canister fitted to the vehicle. This has been standard on European vehicles for a very long time. In this case, you can certainly run without a filter cartridge installed in the housing.
 
I went through a K&N filter phase and put them in everything. Then I read a little more and threw them away and put back in paper filters and life has gone on. I agree with you it is interesting that so many seem to worry a ton about their oil/filter combo while they could pretty much care less about air filters when its clearly the more important of the two.
 
Keep in mind that any debris that does make it through the air filter and into the oil, that the oil filter is the ONLY thing left to remove any damaging debris. That's why I always say BOTH the air and oil filters are important. The only thing an oil filter can't help with in terms of a bad air filter is any damage that might occur in the cylinder and rings from the debris in the air making it's initial ingression past the rings and into the sump area. Once it has made it into the sump, the only thing that can filter it out is the oil filter.
 
I have an old 1965 Vw with the screen wire oil filter and the oil bath air filter. I replace the oil in both at 2K and both contain dirt. It only take 3 quarts total for the motor and air filter.
 
Keep in mind that any debris that does make it through the air filter and into the oil, that the oil filter is the ONLY thing left to remove any damaging debris. That's why I always say BOTH the air and oil filters are important. The only thing an oil filter can't help with in terms of a bad air filter is any damage that might occur in the cyllinder and rings from the debris in the air making it's intiial ingression past the rings and into the sump area. Once it has made it into the sump, the only thing that can filter it out is the oil filter.
Yes, I like having the best filtration I can get in both locations, but it's clear that an engine with full lubrication and no oil filter but a good air filter in a dusty environment is going to last a lot longer than one with a premium oil filter and no air filter in the same environment. As you pointed out, bore, ring, and piston damage is the immediate result of air intake tract contamination with abrasive particulate, and no oil filter is going to stop that. It can however stop bearing damage if that material makes its way into the sump.

Carbonaceous debris and other contaminants (sheddings from timing chain guides for example) can wreak havoc on sensitive hydraulic components like cam phasers and DoD systems. A high efficiency oil filter can prevent this. But this is not the risk of irreparable damage that scored bores and damaged rings is.
 
I have an old 1965 Vw with the screen wire oil filter and the oil bath air filter. I replace the oil in both at 2K and both contain dirt. It only take 3 quarts total for the motor and air filter.
The oil oil baths are interesting. Of course any dust is supposed to end up in the oil. A buddy of mine had a CASE tractor (diesel) with one. Seemed to work well enough, though I've never seen any efficiency data on them vs a paper filter.
 
Yes, I like having the best filtration I can get in both locations, but it's clear that an engine with full lubrication and no oil filter but a good air filter in a dusty environment is going to last a lot longer than one with a premium oil filter and no air filter in the same environment.
Yep, obviously. I've said many times that most engines (fully broken in of course) probably wouldn't even need an oil filter if the oil was changed every 1000-1500 miles.

As you pointed out, bore, ring, and piston damage is the immediate result of air intake tract contamination with abrasive particulate, and no oil filter is going to stop that. It can however stop bearing damage if that material makes its way into the sump.

Carbonaceous debris and other contaminants (sheddings from timing chain guides for example) can wreak havoc on sensitive hydraulic components like cam phasers and DoD systems. A high efficiency oil filter can prevent this. But this is not the risk of irreparable damage that scored bores and damaged rings is.
My take is don't ignore the oil filter either which is part of the "motor health trifecta" (oil, air filter and oil filter). Don't make any of them the "weak link".
 
I think a lot of this depends on the operating conditions and the engine design.

Also, way too many people only use $2-$5 jobber oil and air filters at OEM intervals and their engines still outlast the duration of their ownership. Maybe not Euro cars, but those are in their own world.

So yes, it probably matters....in theory. In practice, we are probably obsessing over things that are irrelevant.
 
I think a lot of this depends on the operating conditions and the engine design.

Also, way too many people only use $2-$5 jobber oil and air filters at OEM intervals and their engines still outlast the duration of their ownership. Maybe not Euro cars, but those are in their own world.

So yes, it probably matters....in theory. In practice, we are probably obsessing over things that are irrelevant.
Thing is, those cheap jobber air filters are still very efficient, and some of the oil filters are too. But yes, that's what we do here, lol, obsess over the minutiae :D

As I noted in a previous reply, boats and snowblowers get away with no air filter because they don't see dust. Not the case for mowers, ATV's...etc where an air filter is critical to longevity, while in many cases, there isn't an oil filter. Operating environment is definitely key in defining how important that air filter is.
 
My Kubota Tractor manual has 1 line about the oil filter and half a page about the dual air filter cleaning and replacement. The OEM oil filter is $10 but air filters are $60. They are way more concerned about the air and make sure you know it.
 
How we have a sub-forum (the oil filter one) where many, myself included, strive to find the most efficient filter for their vehicle, while, in the air filter forum we've got folks actively searching to fit some of the least efficient filters on the market to their vehicles, vehicles which are almost universally stock or close to, that won't benefit from any added airflow that might be available at the expense of efficiency.

Obviously excepting people like @TiGeo who live in non-dusty environments and have significantly increased their power over stock and are making an informed decision.

The general consensus is of course that the air filter is the most important one in the vehicle. It prevents abrasive material from entering the engine and causing damage throughout. Yet the pursuit of more efficient filtration (like the Volant systems, that leverage a Donaldson PowerCore, first introduced on here by @Quattro Pete ) is next to non-existent.

It's truly quite fascinating!
That's really it - it's "informed" as it can be at least and heavily weighted on your operating environment and how well you take care of your vehicle in general. Interesting re the oil filters actually not being that important...can see the logic in that comment. I just never saw much dirt on my paper filters even after years/many miles on any vehicle I've ever owned so figured I'll let my cars raw-dog that air! ahahhahahaha.
 
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My Kubota Tractor manual has 1 line about the oil filter and half a page about the dual air filter cleaning and replacement. The OEM oil filter is $10 but air filters are $60. They are way more concerned about the air and make sure you know it.

Same and the first time I changed both the air filters it was amazing the difference between the outer/inner filter. My outer one looked like an ancient shop vac filter (that dirty) and the inner filter looked as clean as the new one I replaced it with. I'd never seen anything like it.
 
Bull.

I'm not spinning. Let's try this another way:

My M5, I could remove the oil filter completely and drive it around the same mine. It would be fine. I remove the two air filters, I'll dust the engine in short order. You are focusing on the function of the can, not the filter, and then trying to frame it as me spinning something, which is total nonsense, as it is you crafting the strawman/doing the spin.
There is tons of oil filter marketing to the general public the air filters is a some what limited marker for hot rodders. The Air filter is the most important filter. A good enough oil filter will allow the engine to outlast the chassis or drive line usually.
 
I just never saw much dirt on my paper filters even after years/many miles on any vehicle I've ever owned so figured I'll let my cars raw-dog that air! ahahhahahaha.

I bet you are not doing the extended 20K filter changes!! LOL:D
 
I check my air filter once a year or 10k, whichever comes first, if I'm going to take the time to take the housing off, I'm going to replace it. $17, no brainer. I replace my cabin filter every 6 months, my good friend, who is a Honda service manager, has shown me some really disgusting cabin filters and some equally funky intake filters too. Good filters are a good investment in longevity IMHO.
 
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