Is WalMart/discount chain oil the same?
- Thread starter camperbob
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MolaKule
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Originally Posted By: camperbob
Years ago I bought a washer at Lowes and while the same model number as the local mom and pop, it followed with an A. I needed a replacement part and went to the mom and pop only to learn the similar model sold by Lowes...ending in A, had some internal differences in part quality...plastic vs Aluminum.
Weed and Feed... The version in WalMart comtains 34% active ingredient, while the same bottle at Agway contains over 70%.
This gave me a thought. It is firm fact WalMart controls it's suppliers, not visa versa.
Quote:
So with this said, has anyone conducted a VOA on say Pennzoil conventional (or any other) purchased from Wal-Mart vs Pennzoil conventional purchased from a distributor?
Curious as to if they adjust the formula slightly to sell at a lower price point.
I had my analytical chemistry class do just that with petty cash from our lab supplies fund a few years ago.
We purchased Pennzoil Conventional 10w30 from O'Reiley's, Advance Auto, NAPA, and Walmart. We put a black sleeve on each and marked each one for later identification.
Within instrumental tolerances, all Pennzoil Conventional 10w30's had the same elemental and GC FFT-IR signatures.
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This gave me a thought. It is firm fact WalMart controls it's suppliers, not visa versa.
How can you can say it is a firm fact? You're placing the verdict before the evidence ever comes in.
The more volume you purchase, the better the price point.
The price point is a result of purchasing volume and "economic scale," a fact of simple economics.
Do Walmart purchasing agents make stringent deals? You bet.
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Herrstig: ...It amazes me that people can escape the "educational system" in this country without a CLUE as to how basic economics works. I suppose that's why so many of them thought that the "new healthcare' was going to be next to free...
It amazes me as well.
Years ago I bought a washer at Lowes and while the same model number as the local mom and pop, it followed with an A. I needed a replacement part and went to the mom and pop only to learn the similar model sold by Lowes...ending in A, had some internal differences in part quality...plastic vs Aluminum.
Weed and Feed... The version in WalMart comtains 34% active ingredient, while the same bottle at Agway contains over 70%.
This gave me a thought. It is firm fact WalMart controls it's suppliers, not visa versa.
Quote:
So with this said, has anyone conducted a VOA on say Pennzoil conventional (or any other) purchased from Wal-Mart vs Pennzoil conventional purchased from a distributor?
Curious as to if they adjust the formula slightly to sell at a lower price point.
I had my analytical chemistry class do just that with petty cash from our lab supplies fund a few years ago.
We purchased Pennzoil Conventional 10w30 from O'Reiley's, Advance Auto, NAPA, and Walmart. We put a black sleeve on each and marked each one for later identification.
Within instrumental tolerances, all Pennzoil Conventional 10w30's had the same elemental and GC FFT-IR signatures.
Quote:
This gave me a thought. It is firm fact WalMart controls it's suppliers, not visa versa.
How can you can say it is a firm fact? You're placing the verdict before the evidence ever comes in.
The more volume you purchase, the better the price point.
The price point is a result of purchasing volume and "economic scale," a fact of simple economics.
Do Walmart purchasing agents make stringent deals? You bet.
Quote:
Herrstig: ...It amazes me that people can escape the "educational system" in this country without a CLUE as to how basic economics works. I suppose that's why so many of them thought that the "new healthcare' was going to be next to free...
It amazes me as well.
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The only thing different about oil at Wal-Mart is sometimes the bottles on the shelf are full of dirty used oil that lowlifes have returned. I ALWAYS check the contents of the bottle before leaving the store. I've seen the same thing with filters.
In the 3-4 years since I joined BITOG, I've seen this topic floated a few times: That the oil sold at Walmart is somehow "watered down".
I even seen posts that people say, just for example, that a jug of Pennzoil Conventional 10w30, when shaken at Walmart, just sounds more "watery" than a Pennzoil conventional jug shaken at Advance, Autozone, etc.
Absolutely amazing!
I even seen posts that people say, just for example, that a jug of Pennzoil Conventional 10w30, when shaken at Walmart, just sounds more "watery" than a Pennzoil conventional jug shaken at Advance, Autozone, etc.
Absolutely amazing!
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: chainblu
In the 3-4 years since I joined BITOG, I've seen this topic floated a few times: That the oil sold at Walmart is somehow "watered down".
I even seen posts that people say, just for example, that a jug of Pennzoil Conventional 10w30, when shaken at Walmart, just sounds more "watery" than a Pennzoil conventional jug shaken at Advance, Autozone, etc.
Absolutely amazing!
See my post from before on how from my review of TDSs they do get a low price point on store brand Super Tech oils... and also why oils which meet vendor specific approvals likely arent changed.
But there's no reason why given the quantity and breadth of their buying power, plus their known buying tactics, that its impossible. We know they get a custom 5.1qt bottle. Yes, other major resellers do as well, but thats again all in the reigns you hold over the manufacturer.
Here's a question, what's the SKU on a quart of Pennzoil conventional at Walmart, K-mart, AZ, AAP, and the local mom and pop store?
Likely the same.
Whats the SKU on the 5 qt bottles? Perhaps different?
Might not mean anything, thats just printing, and could be done due to other variances and price controls on the custom bottles.
I wouldnt believe it until I saw it. I sure would believe it with the house brands that there is flexibility to minimize stuff to squeeze pennies... But if were going to make these claims about name brand motor oil, should we also make them about name brand dish soap? Laundry detergent? What else?
Given the quantities bought, there certainly is a feasibility to the claim. I know for childrens' clothes, the Carters clothing from Costco is thinner and does not last as wellas the clothes from the Carters retail store (as an example). But at the same time, it isnt necessarily marketed as the exact same product.
In the 3-4 years since I joined BITOG, I've seen this topic floated a few times: That the oil sold at Walmart is somehow "watered down".
I even seen posts that people say, just for example, that a jug of Pennzoil Conventional 10w30, when shaken at Walmart, just sounds more "watery" than a Pennzoil conventional jug shaken at Advance, Autozone, etc.
Absolutely amazing!
See my post from before on how from my review of TDSs they do get a low price point on store brand Super Tech oils... and also why oils which meet vendor specific approvals likely arent changed.
But there's no reason why given the quantity and breadth of their buying power, plus their known buying tactics, that its impossible. We know they get a custom 5.1qt bottle. Yes, other major resellers do as well, but thats again all in the reigns you hold over the manufacturer.
Here's a question, what's the SKU on a quart of Pennzoil conventional at Walmart, K-mart, AZ, AAP, and the local mom and pop store?
Likely the same.
Whats the SKU on the 5 qt bottles? Perhaps different?
Might not mean anything, thats just printing, and could be done due to other variances and price controls on the custom bottles.
I wouldnt believe it until I saw it. I sure would believe it with the house brands that there is flexibility to minimize stuff to squeeze pennies... But if were going to make these claims about name brand motor oil, should we also make them about name brand dish soap? Laundry detergent? What else?
Given the quantities bought, there certainly is a feasibility to the claim. I know for childrens' clothes, the Carters clothing from Costco is thinner and does not last as wellas the clothes from the Carters retail store (as an example). But at the same time, it isnt necessarily marketed as the exact same product.
As for Mobil 1 oils, it's the same no matter where you buy it.
https://mobiloil.com/en/faq/ask-our-auto...product-quality
https://mobiloil.com/en/faq/ask-our-auto...product-quality
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
But there's no reason why given the quantity and breadth of their buying power, plus their known buying tactics, that its impossible. We know they get a custom 5.1qt bottle. Yes, other major resellers do as well, but thats again all in the reigns you hold over the manufacturer.
Walmart used to have 5-qt jug and all other resellers have 5.1-qt jug. All have 5-qt jug now.
But there's no reason why given the quantity and breadth of their buying power, plus their known buying tactics, that its impossible. We know they get a custom 5.1qt bottle. Yes, other major resellers do as well, but thats again all in the reigns you hold over the manufacturer.
Walmart used to have 5-qt jug and all other resellers have 5.1-qt jug. All have 5-qt jug now.
It would cost the oil companies more money to make a separate Walmart formulation - and to keep track of it - than to sell Walmart the good stuff.
It's easy to sell oil cheap in large volumes, especially when you pay minimum wage and no benefits to a large portion of your workforce. That way taxpayers get to subsidize the cheap 5 qt jugs of oil by providing food stamps and medicaid to its employees.
Flame all you want, it's the truth
Flame all you want, it's the truth
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
It's easy to sell oil cheap in large volumes, especially when you pay minimum wage and no benefits to a large portion of your workforce. That way taxpayers get to subsidize the cheap 5 qt jugs of oil by providing food stamps and medicaid to its employees.
Flame all you want, it's the truth
Actually, a local tax study in my hometown determined that the local Walmart generated the same amount of real-estate tax revenue as an "median" single family home in a per-acre comparison (34 acres vs .25 acres). But if you say "wait" what about sales tax.... walmart only produces about the same sales tax as a "downtown" mom-and-pop bookstore per acre... but the mom-and-pop bookstore generated 10X the property tax. Considering the infrastructure needs (roads, sewer, etc), a Walmart could take decades for it to repay itself (compared to 6 years or so in a moderately healthy downtown) to the locality when the stores are designed for 15 year lifespans. Basically, even at the end of the day, Walmart does not really generate a lot of tax compared to the land it consumes. However, in Walmart's defense, this go for all suburban sprawl-type development (Think Gwinnett County Ga... and that is why they are running out of money).
As for the oil, do not be quick to lump "Walmart" supplier pressure with random garden gnomes and such. If there is one area that walmart is a "sleeper", it is their oil. Supertech is good and Mobil, Shell, and such are just as big of a bully as Walmart. Supertech's oil always test out very well and can be as good or better than a lot of the higher-priced brands. Sure, they might not have the latest European spec, but then again I bet if Warren/Supertech put out an API SL oil, it would work for 70% of walmart's customer base.
It's easy to sell oil cheap in large volumes, especially when you pay minimum wage and no benefits to a large portion of your workforce. That way taxpayers get to subsidize the cheap 5 qt jugs of oil by providing food stamps and medicaid to its employees.
Flame all you want, it's the truth
Actually, a local tax study in my hometown determined that the local Walmart generated the same amount of real-estate tax revenue as an "median" single family home in a per-acre comparison (34 acres vs .25 acres). But if you say "wait" what about sales tax.... walmart only produces about the same sales tax as a "downtown" mom-and-pop bookstore per acre... but the mom-and-pop bookstore generated 10X the property tax. Considering the infrastructure needs (roads, sewer, etc), a Walmart could take decades for it to repay itself (compared to 6 years or so in a moderately healthy downtown) to the locality when the stores are designed for 15 year lifespans. Basically, even at the end of the day, Walmart does not really generate a lot of tax compared to the land it consumes. However, in Walmart's defense, this go for all suburban sprawl-type development (Think Gwinnett County Ga... and that is why they are running out of money).
As for the oil, do not be quick to lump "Walmart" supplier pressure with random garden gnomes and such. If there is one area that walmart is a "sleeper", it is their oil. Supertech is good and Mobil, Shell, and such are just as big of a bully as Walmart. Supertech's oil always test out very well and can be as good or better than a lot of the higher-priced brands. Sure, they might not have the latest European spec, but then again I bet if Warren/Supertech put out an API SL oil, it would work for 70% of walmart's customer base.
Really, M1 sales are a drop in the bucket. Important but staying on walmart's shelf is not a make-it-or-break-it deal like for some suppliers.
You are pitting two companies with about $450 Billion in revenue against each other. Neither will back down or be bullied. ExxonMobil is much larger than their consumer products... as I will bet that the bulk of their profit comes from non-ExxonmMobil labeled sources (unlike walmart).
You are pitting two companies with about $450 Billion in revenue against each other. Neither will back down or be bullied. ExxonMobil is much larger than their consumer products... as I will bet that the bulk of their profit comes from non-ExxonmMobil labeled sources (unlike walmart).
very interesting responses, and actually a good many I didn't expect from a forum that prides itself on firm black and white results over opinion. I was merely asking if anyone ever did a VOA on the oils from a discount retailer or auto parts chain vs one from a manufacturer distributor.
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In all honesty I do not believe for one second that any major company is going to make a special batch of anything for a retailer. Labeling was talked about here pretty good, but here is a catch, it still says its Castrol gtx or Pennzoil conventional, so if they stray from the same labeled oil from another chain and get caught, they can get a false advertisement suit against them. It also does not pay for them to fill any reserve tanks of product that differs from the others, so it just doesn't make financial or legal sense to do anything different for advance, autozone, walmart, kmart or whoever.
Originally Posted By: jaynissan12
In all honesty I do not believe for one second that any major company is going to make a special batch of anything for a retailer. Labeling was talked about here pretty good, but here is a catch, it still says its Castrol gtx or Pennzoil conventional, so if they stray from the same labeled oil from another chain and get caught, they can get a false advertisement suit against them. It also does not pay for them to fill any reserve tanks of product that differs from the others, so it just doesn't make financial or legal sense to do anything different for advance, autozone, walmart, kmart or whoever.
bingo. And if there is a want for a "lesser" cheaper product, then it is called a "private label". Keep in mind that ExxonMobil is one of the suppliers for Supertech (along with Warren and Citgo). Shell does Sam's Clubs "Quality" label.
Sometimes it is easier for assembled products where they swap out a metal crush washer for a nyylon and give it a slightly different model number but for blended products, the CocaCola is the same at walmart or place-X
In all honesty I do not believe for one second that any major company is going to make a special batch of anything for a retailer. Labeling was talked about here pretty good, but here is a catch, it still says its Castrol gtx or Pennzoil conventional, so if they stray from the same labeled oil from another chain and get caught, they can get a false advertisement suit against them. It also does not pay for them to fill any reserve tanks of product that differs from the others, so it just doesn't make financial or legal sense to do anything different for advance, autozone, walmart, kmart or whoever.
bingo. And if there is a want for a "lesser" cheaper product, then it is called a "private label". Keep in mind that ExxonMobil is one of the suppliers for Supertech (along with Warren and Citgo). Shell does Sam's Clubs "Quality" label.
Sometimes it is easier for assembled products where they swap out a metal crush washer for a nyylon and give it a slightly different model number but for blended products, the CocaCola is the same at walmart or place-X
There can be differences. A few API Service Categories ago, the Mobil web site stated that their common gasoline engine oil in the quart was different from the bulk delivery product that went to service facilities. Both met the spec of the day, but the bottled product was made to stay in spec longer. I doubt that bottled oil in Walmart is any different from bottled oil of the same brand and name at any other store, but who knows for sure? Wally buys enough product that they can demand lower pricing and don't worry about getting a lower quality product.
Here's your test. Run your favorite oil bought at an auto parts store for 5,000 miles. Get it tested, drain it, and refill with the same brand & name oil, everything the same, except buy this oil at Walmart. Run it 5,000 miles under as identical conditions as you can (I know, weather changes, etc.). Test this and compare the results.
Here's your test. Run your favorite oil bought at an auto parts store for 5,000 miles. Get it tested, drain it, and refill with the same brand & name oil, everything the same, except buy this oil at Walmart. Run it 5,000 miles under as identical conditions as you can (I know, weather changes, etc.). Test this and compare the results.
They are not labeling or using advertising with bulk oil versus what they might sell as a mobil clean conventional or whatever it may be, unless the drum reads "mobil 1 synthetic", then at that point advertising does come into play. I see what you are saying, but specifics come into play here when advertising is involved. The only reserved right they have is they can change the formulation without notice, but that does not give them rights to sell a different product under the same label once the reformulation has been performed. Bulk oil is a different bird, especially on the cheap where these oil change places are concerned but I bet its not labeled as being called the exact same thing as what you buy in quarts or 5L jugs.
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
Gun shops have begun rumors that firearms sold at Walmart are lesser quality or have lesser quality wood. Don't know if there ever was any evidence, likely just a way to create panic and give incentive to buy from them instead.
I don't think any oil analysis results have ever implied Walmart oil is of lesser quality.
Walmart has long had 'special' models of various rifles. One example was the Marlin model 30AW. The "W" was a Walmart-specific variant of the 336/30 lever guns. The W guns had cheaper sights, cheaper wood, and cheaper checkering. Walmart is not the only big-chain firearms retailer with 'special' models, but they _are_ one of them. The thing is, you can always see the difference, IME, if/when you look. I'm skeptical that licensed, name-brand motor oils are this way, though, and MolaKule's class's work supports that skepticism.
Gun shops have begun rumors that firearms sold at Walmart are lesser quality or have lesser quality wood. Don't know if there ever was any evidence, likely just a way to create panic and give incentive to buy from them instead.
I don't think any oil analysis results have ever implied Walmart oil is of lesser quality.
Walmart has long had 'special' models of various rifles. One example was the Marlin model 30AW. The "W" was a Walmart-specific variant of the 336/30 lever guns. The W guns had cheaper sights, cheaper wood, and cheaper checkering. Walmart is not the only big-chain firearms retailer with 'special' models, but they _are_ one of them. The thing is, you can always see the difference, IME, if/when you look. I'm skeptical that licensed, name-brand motor oils are this way, though, and MolaKule's class's work supports that skepticism.
Originally Posted By: Ken2
There can be differences. A few API Service Categories ago, the Mobil web site stated that their common gasoline engine oil in the quart was different from the bulk delivery product that went to service facilities. Both met the spec of the day, but the bottled product was made to stay in spec longer. I doubt that bottled oil in Walmart is any different from bottled oil of the same brand and name at any other store, but who knows for sure? Wally buys enough product that they can demand lower pricing and don't worry about getting a lower quality product.
Here's your test. Run your favorite oil bought at an auto parts store for 5,000 miles. Get it tested, drain it, and refill with the same brand & name oil, everything the same, except buy this oil at Walmart. Run it 5,000 miles under as identical conditions as you can (I know, weather changes, etc.). Test this and compare the results.
https://mobiloil.com/en/faq/ask-our-auto...product-quality
And why would you run the oil and then do a used oil analysis? Why not just run an analysis on virgin oil? At the very least you would have residual oil contaminating both samples.
The desire for a conspiracy here is typical but still amazing.
There can be differences. A few API Service Categories ago, the Mobil web site stated that their common gasoline engine oil in the quart was different from the bulk delivery product that went to service facilities. Both met the spec of the day, but the bottled product was made to stay in spec longer. I doubt that bottled oil in Walmart is any different from bottled oil of the same brand and name at any other store, but who knows for sure? Wally buys enough product that they can demand lower pricing and don't worry about getting a lower quality product.
Here's your test. Run your favorite oil bought at an auto parts store for 5,000 miles. Get it tested, drain it, and refill with the same brand & name oil, everything the same, except buy this oil at Walmart. Run it 5,000 miles under as identical conditions as you can (I know, weather changes, etc.). Test this and compare the results.
https://mobiloil.com/en/faq/ask-our-auto...product-quality
And why would you run the oil and then do a used oil analysis? Why not just run an analysis on virgin oil? At the very least you would have residual oil contaminating both samples.
The desire for a conspiracy here is typical but still amazing.
I have said this once before. the oils you buy at wal mart are different then say pep boys adv auto etc. for instance when you buy a t.v. at sam's club that t.v has a different number on the same set that is sold at say best buy etc.
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