Is there such a thing as an unreliable U.S. new car today?

[ecotourist]

I suppose that would depend on how someone defines unreliable. My last F-150 had quite a few relatively minor issues pretty early on in it's life but it did always get me to my destination. It was enough to annoy me and make me concerned about it long term but I'm not sure I could necessarily condemn it as unreliable. Less reliable than some of the competition, perhaps. Unreliable to me would be something that leaves me stranded.

My Volvo was at the shop repeatedly during the 3 year warranty period. But once it got out of warranty I found a really good after-market shop and it settled down for 15 more fairly reliable years. It cost quite a bit to keep going but at 18 1/2 years old and 285,000 km I would have taken it on a 1,000 mile trip without checking anything.

I'd consider it reliable (even if the exhaust system was found to be broken and dragging on the pavement twice on long trips - I just kept strong wire and pliers in the glove compartment on long trips after that.)

One of our favourite cars. Would I buy another Volvo? An older one, sure.

 

[Kurtatron]

I think the OP is right and that his observations would be valid for at least the past twenty years.
The worst new car today is more reliable than the best of thirty or forty years ago.
For those who want to play with ancient vehicles as daily drivers, I'd say have at it. Most of us have better ways in which to spend our time and money.

But my opinion is that 90s Japanese cars are cheaper to run than modern cars, even when disregarding purchase and depreciation. The parts are cheaper since they are not modular e.g. pcv integrated into the entire plastic manifold. A pcv on my 91 Toyota is less than $20. Replacing a pcv on a modern car is hundreds of dollars.
I’d much rather have a 100k well maintained 90s Camry than a 100k equally well maintained 2020 Camry. Easier to work on, cheaper parts, and smaller footprint.
They are less safe, I acknowledge that, but the safety obsession has led to the proliferation of big car arms race, which I also dislike.

 

[2019CRVlx]

I think the OP is right and that his observations would be valid for at least the past twenty years.

That and the fact since I retired, I drive a few thousand miles a year. To ponder which car will serve me best at the >100k miles point isn't really a factor.

I watched a Scotty Kilmer video where he was hating on a VW Jetta about having a timing belt. He said at 80-100k miles prepare for a considerably expense.

I was thinking ... yeah at my average yearly mileage that'd will be 25-35 years from now. If I'm still around, I'll be getting around via fusion powered bullet trains.

 

[jeepman3071]

That and the fact since I retired, I drive a few thousand miles a year.

I think that is the difference between a majority of the members on this site and the average car buying public. I'm a millennial, I have a good job, and could afford a new vehicle. I like driving older well maintained cars instead, because I enjoy the character and driving experience older cars offer over the screens and junk in newer cars. I have the ability, the space, the tools, and most importantly the time to work on those older vehicles. Many people do not, and I'm sure if I had kids and other obligations, I be in a different situation, and likely in a much newer vehicle with a warranty. Until then, they can pry my fun analog vehicles from my cold dead heads.

 

[fdcg27]

But my opinion is that 90s Japanese cars are cheaper to run than modern cars, even when disregarding purchase and depreciation. The parts are cheaper since they are not modular e.g. pcv integrated into the entire plastic manifold. A pcv on my 91 Toyota is less than $20. Replacing a pcv on a modern car is hundreds of dollars.
I’d much rather have a 100k well maintained 90s Camry than a 100k equally well maintained 2020 Camry. Easier to work on, cheaper parts, and smaller footprint.
They are less safe, I acknowledge that, but the safety obsession has led to the proliferation of big car arms race, which I also dislike.

I won't argue with you on that. The simplicity of these older cars made them much easier and cheaper to maintain and repair.
Looking at my Gen 5 and 6 Accords they were fairly simple, and both were sticks, even better.
Our eighties Civics were even more so, with wind up widows and door locks powered by your fingers and not even FI, electric fuel pumps or power steering. These were cars you could easily care for in your own driveway, including the clutch and the timing belt.

 

[Brett776]

Unless you plan on keeping it forever any new vehicle should be fine with basic maintenance. I’ve never kept a car beyond 100k miles as I get bored and trade in. My first car was an 88 accord I guess that was over 100k miles but I sold that when the carbs went (I was 17, no clue how to fix myself, and I was given a Malibu by my grandfather). My point, unless you drive cars for a long time you’ll prob have no major issues. I buy now based on what interest me despite reliability reputations.

 

[vavavroom]

People are bringing up Fiat, but they do t sell new cars in the USA that I know of.

They still sell the Cinquecento. At least I see them all over the place.

 

[supton]

Unless you plan on keeping it forever any new vehicle should be fine with basic maintenance.

Half of bitog trades every few years, the other half every few decades.

But both tend to obsess over long term reliability.

 

[edyvw]

These topics.
2011 Tiguan. We have it since 2013, now has 103,000 miles. Changed HVAC resistor ($5), coils, VW recalled water pump, befor we own it, VW replaced per documentation intake manifold.
I own 328 since 2019, besides my upgrades, had TPMS module failure. It is regularly on the track and most if those “reliable “ cars by now would leave their soul there.
VW Atlas I got with 15,000 miles in January. Now it has 31,000 miles and nothing broke yet. Low mileage, not making any predictions.

Previous vehicle, Toyota Sienna was sold to dealership at hight if used vehicle prices with 86,000 miles as it was not worth investing money in all the things that broke.

 

[walterjay]

I remember when a car came up to 70,000 miles it was considered over the hill.

 

[ecotourist]

I remember when a car came up to 70,000 miles it was considered over the hill.

In the '60s 100,000 miles was about all you could expect from a car. My '65 Comet 289 V8 was using oil, smoking and had become unreliable by 80,000 miles.

My dad didn't trade in every 2 years like many people; in his case he sold and bought new every 10 years (with considerably less than 100,000 miles). His old cars were in demand as they were low miles and well maintained.

 

[J Dubbs]

In the '60s 100,000 miles was about all you could expect from a car. My '65 Comet 289 V8 was using oil, smoking and had become unreliable by 80,000 miles.

My dad didn't trade in every 2 years like many people; in his case he sold and bought new every 10 years (with considerably less than 100,000 miles). His old cars were in demand as they were low miles and well maintained.

My dad was under the impression that modern cars were 100k mile vehicles like the 60's cars he grew up owning... he didn't believe me when I told him a well maintained modern vehicle (that wasn't a Fiat ) could do twice that, or more, until he experienced it for himself lol.

 

[ecotourist]

My dad was under the impression that modern cars were 100k mile vehicles like the 60's cars he grew up owning... he didn't believe me when I told him a well maintained modern vehicle (that wasn't a Fiat ) could do twice that, or more, until he experienced it for himself lol.

And there are reports of Fiats going a few hundred thousand miles. Seems to me the Abarth 500 version is the pick of the litter.

 

[IndyFan]

I know it's relative, but if you were a low mileage driver (like me) and drove like an old lady (like me) and were a stickler for maintenance (like me) ... shouldn't the majority of today's vehicles last many miles?

I've read the smaller JEEP SUV's were borderline junk, however, we had a Compass as a company vehicle that approached 100k trouble free miles. I'd be leery of a Fiat, but they're a tiny part of the U.S. market now.

Can't really think of any brand new junkers on the market.

I´ve got 2 Jeep Wranglers. One is a 2008 with about 186k or so miles. I´ve thoroughly beaten the scat out of it on trails ranging from mud to rocks to sand for 16 or so years and it´s reliability has been outstanding. The worst thing that ever happened was the computer getting fried, althoiugh I now suspect that it was a glitch caused by the electronic swaybar disconnect that would have been an easy fix. It runs like brand new. Maintenance is simple. It does use oil some of the time, but you just keep on top of it. It had the transmission replaced at 116k due to a noise and occasionally popping out of gear, but I would have lived with that if not for the lifetime warranty.

My 2018 JL Wrangler has been nearly flawless, and I´ve beaten harder on it than the 08. It is 5.5 years old and is just a blast to drive. No major issues. There have been 3 recalls now on the clutch, but mine has experienced no issues at all. It also had delamination on the nav screen but Jeep replaced that under warranty.

So if those are among the worst US vehicles, then the best must be perfect.

My 07 Corvette was trouble free, according to the previous owner and Carfax. 58k miles when I bought it. I had to replace a bad harmonic balancer, which is a very well known LS2 issue, but otherwise, it´s history is sterling. I´ve put nearly 2k miles on it in the 6 or so weeks I´ve owned it. I´ve seen these with 250k on them running great, so I have very high expectations for this car.

All of my vehicles get meticulous maintenance, including regular washes with high quality care products. But they get driven hard in the elements for which they were designed. They were not babied. I have zero complaints about their reliability. They´ve been as good as the Toyotas and Hondas I´ve owned.

The cars that belong in the garbage can, IMO, are BMW´s. Between my son, daughter, and her boyfriend, they´ve had about 6 of them. All have had expensive and frequent problems. My brother had a Z4 that was a hangar queen and it always had problems. He wound up paying 6 grand for a complete electrical re-wiring job.

I also had a 99 Mercedes E430 Sport. Loved the car, but it had little issues galore, like seat switches that repeatedly quit working and climate control units that went wonky. It also wore tires out waay prematurely and there was only one shop in town other than a dealer that even had the proper equipment to align it, let alone a tech that knew how to use it. I still liked that car, though. Great engine and transmission! Silky smooth and fast! And it had timeless styling. It still looks good on the road, even today, almost a quarter century since it was designed.

 

[ecotourist]

The cars that belong in the garbage can, IMO, are BMW´s. Between my son, daughter, and her boyfriend, they´ve had about 6 of them. All have had expensive and frequent problems. My brother had a Z4 that was a hangar queen and it always had problems. He wound up paying 6 grand for a complete electrical re-wiring job.

It's good to hear about your experience with Jeeps. They don't have a very good reputation for reliability but yours have served you well.

As for BMWs I think it depends. My E39 (2000 528i M-sport 5 MT) was quite a reliable vehicle. It cost less to keep running than my earlier Volvo. But while I really liked that car, when I had to choose a car to keep, I kept my Honda Accord instead in part because I was concerned about a costly future for the BMW - that and a bit of rust (the horror). Small repairs on a BMW do cost a lot - it's the proverbial $5 seal with $200 labour to replace it.

But if I could buy a brand new 2000 528i M-sport 5MT I would be very tempted. They're good for at least 100,000 miles of relatively trouble free driving over a 20 year period.

As for their current lot? I bought a Tesla instead.

 

[CKN]

I think the OP is right and that his observations would be valid for at least the past twenty years.
The worst new car today is more reliable than the best of thirty or forty years ago.
For those who want to play with ancient vehicles as daily drivers, I'd say have at it. Most of us have better ways in which to spend our time and money.

Truer words have never been spoken. Cue the "Beater club".

 

[CKN]

That and the fact since I retired, I drive a few thousand miles a year. To ponder which car will serve me best at the >100k miles point isn't really a factor.

I watched a Scotty Kilmer video where he was hating on a VW Jetta about having a timing belt. He said at 80-100k miles prepare for a considerably expense.

I was thinking ... yeah at my average yearly mileage that'd will be 25-35 years from now. If I'm still around, I'll be getting around via fusion powered bullet trains.

That in itself is a waste of time.....

 

[Torrid]

Truer words have never been spoken. Cue the "Beater club".

Yeah I don't have time for stuff like that. I get that a maintained car will last longer, but at a certain point no matter how maintained a car is they eventually can get unpredictable with age. I don't have time for that these days and spend too much time on the road for work to deal with it. I'm not gambling my job on an old car. Miss 2 calls in a month and you're done.

 

[CKN]

Yeah I don't have time for stuff like that. I get that a maintained car will last longer, but at a certain point no matter how maintained a car is they eventually can get unpredictable with age. I don't have time for that these days and spend too much time on the road for work to deal with it. I'm not gambling my job on an old car. Miss 2 calls in a month and you're done.

Yea-somebody just the other day posted a thread about how they were left at the side of the road due to a bad alternator or something.

 

[Torrid]

Yea-somebody just the other day posted a thread about how they were left at the side of the road due to a bad alternator or something.

I get too that something can happen to newer cars and I'll have to deal with those things when they come about, but trying it with older cars is just tempting fate and asking for trouble as a daily driver.